Advanced devices made with no knowledge

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Discussion Overview

The discussion explores a hypothetical scenario in which a mid-18th century civilization develops nuclear weapons without a scientific understanding of the underlying principles. Participants examine the implications of this scenario, including the potential for accidents, the societal response, and the mechanics of creating a nuclear explosion using uranium-235.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes a scenario where early civilization inadvertently discovers nuclear reactions through accidents in uranium processing, leading to the creation of a crude nuclear weapon.
  • Another participant argues that a mid-18th century civilization would have had enough scientific method to investigate dangerous radiation levels before reaching criticality, suggesting that the society would likely recognize the dangers of uranium processing.
  • Concerns are raised about the feasibility of achieving a nuclear explosion with only 20% enriched uranium, with participants discussing the need for modern explosives and the timing of neutron initiation for a successful detonation.
  • Some participants suggest that while a bomb might be theoretically possible, the yield would be significantly lower and more unpredictable due to the lack of understanding of nuclear physics.
  • There is a discussion about the effects of dropping large masses of uranium and how this could potentially assist in achieving criticality, with one participant mentioning the concept of "full insertion" in gun-type designs.
  • Participants debate the potential energy yield from such a bomb, with estimates of conversion rates and the implications of using large quantities of lower-enriched uranium.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the plausibility of the scenario, the understanding of nuclear reactions, and the mechanics of achieving a nuclear explosion. There is no consensus on whether a bomb could be effectively created under the conditions described.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the speculative nature of the scenario, the assumptions about societal responses to radiation, and the unresolved technical details regarding the mechanics of nuclear weapons design without modern knowledge.

  • #31
You could always have the superscientific Bad Guys incoming on a rogue planet with intent to replace the Earth or Jupiter or whatever. They could cleverly mold their trajectory to do so. It wouldn't even take that much energy, because if you calculate it all a million years in advance your steering has great leverage.

In "real life" the presence of a Sun would be extremely disruptive to an ecosystem unadapted to it, but your readers will never figure that out. They will believe that orbit around a Sun is highly coveted.

Hmm, you could have two rogue planets. One harbors the aliens, the other is just a station to transmit power to the place. The station gets a close orbit around our Sun, while the inhabited planet hangs out near Pluto. Hey, I'm starting to like it...

If you want to break away from the dominant Good Guys/Bad Guys Shooting It Out paradigm, you could have the story about getting used to the idea of sharing the Solar System with a far superior civilization.
 
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  • #32
I had a thought pop into my head this morning and remembered this thread. You don't have to make it so that your species has no knowledge, just no living members of your species. In the 600s, Europeans had technology that none of them understood and couldn't replicate: no one understood how a water wheel worked, they just knew because the Romans figured it out. The collapse of a highly organized civilization to an agrarian one would suffice. Imagine with our own species, an economic problem on a global scale, all powerful nations' infrastructures are collapsing, as that happens, they're become more volatile and eventually end up fighting. A brutal war would destroy almost all of the infrastructure, and the last desperate attack of a dying superpower unleashes a biological weapon that decimates the population of the entire planet. With the combined knowledge of the awakening of that civilization having been stored digitally, all advanced knowledge is lost in an instant. Only scattered bits and pieces remain: a modern burning of Alexandria. With no winner and a devastated planet, most of us would hunt or farm, yet generations later we'd have solar panels to run our equipment, but not a sole would understand even on a rudimentary level how it works.
 
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