[Advanced] Probability of Union[n-elements]

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around finding a general formula for the probability of the union of n elements, extending from the known formula for two mutually non-exclusive events. Participants explore methods to derive this formula, including recursive sums and the application of mathematical induction.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant references the formula for the union of two events and seeks to extend it to n elements, expressing a desire for guidance rather than direct answers.
  • Another suggests breaking down the union of n elements into smaller unions, hinting at the use of parentheses to apply known results.
  • A participant questions the mathematical robustness of using smaller unions to derive a general formula, indicating uncertainty about its validity.
  • It is proposed that finding the union for specific cases (3, 4, 5, and 6 sets) could lead to a generalization, with a suggestion to use induction for proof once a candidate solution is identified.
  • One participant shares their progress in deriving the union formula for three and four sets, noting the complexity of intersections and expressing difficulty in representing these in LaTeX.
  • A later reply encourages detecting patterns and considering induction, offering to provide an answer later with a spoiler warning.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the approach of breaking down the problem into smaller unions and the potential use of induction, but there is no consensus on the validity of the proposed methods or the robustness of the derived formulas.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the mathematical soundness of their approaches and the representation of intersections in LaTeX, indicating limitations in their current understanding and the complexity of the problem.

Bassalisk
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Hello,

We are all familiar with the formula that relates union of 2 mutually NOT exclusive events formula:

P(A\cup B)=P(A)+P(B)-P(A\cap B)

For 3 sets its easily derived using this formula.

But I wanted to take this step further. I wanted to find a general formula, that represents union of n elements.

I don't know how to write that In LaTex.

If anybody knows the answer, please don't tell me. Tell me some guidelines to solution. I have tried, but I get stuck with recursive sums, and I can't get out of them.
 
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Think of expressing a union of n elements as a union of a smaller number of elements,and then use the answer you already know, by using parentheses. I am trying to not be neither too obscure nor tell you the answer.
 
Bacle said:
Think of expressing a union of n elements as a union of a smaller number of elements,and then use the answer you already know, by using parentheses. I am trying to not be neither too obscure nor tell you the answer.

You mean like, doing for 3 4 5 and maybe 6 sets this union, then get my answer from that?

Is that mathematically bulletproof?
 
Bassalisk said:
You mean like, doing for 3 4 5 and maybe 6 sets this union, then get my answer from that?

Is that mathematically bulletproof?

It's certainly not bulletproof, but it's a nice start. Start by finding it for 3,4,5 and 6 and see if you can generalize it. Once you've found a candidate for a general solution, then you can apply induction to prove it.
 
micromass said:
It's certainly not bulletproof, but it's a nice start. Start by finding it for 3,4,5 and 6 and see if you can generalize it. Once you've found a candidate for a general solution, then you can apply induction to prove it.

Fun! On it
 
Here is what I got so far:

P(A\cup B\cup C)=P(A)+P(B)+P(C)-P(A\cap B)-P(A\cap C)-P(B\cap C)+P(A\cap B\cap C)

Assuming that:

P((A\cap B\cap C)\cup D)=P((A\cap D)\cup (B\cap D)\cup (C\cap D)

then:

P(A\cup B\cup C\cup D)=P(A)+P(B)+P(C)+P(D)-P(A\cap B)-P(A\cap C)-P(A\cap D)-P(B\cap C)-P(B\cap D)-P(C\cap D)<br /> +P(A\cap B\cap C)+P(A\cap C\cap D)+P(B\cap C\cap D)-P(A\cap B\cap C\cap D)Ok, I see a sum here \sum_{i=1}^{n} P(A_{i})

I also see that each set is intersected with every other set. I don't know exactly how to write that.

At least not in LaTex. I am thinking:

\bigcap_{i,j=1}^{n} A_{i},A_{j} i\neq j [idea]

I get stuck at those 3 intersections and 4.
 
Now, try to see if you can detect a pattern and try induction. If you want, I can give you the (an) answer with a spoiler warning, for when you're done' let me know.
 

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