Air fuel Mix Ambient psi vs. compressed energy ouput

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the role of air-fuel mixture compression in various types of engines, including internal combustion engines, turbines, ram jets, and rocket engines. Participants explore whether compression is necessary for achieving higher or more efficient energy output, considering different engine types and their operational mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that compression of the air-fuel mixture is essential for higher energy output, particularly in piston engines where higher compression ratios can enhance efficiency, provided the fuel's octane rating is sufficient to prevent pre-detonation.
  • Others argue that in turbine engines, ram jets, and scram jets, compressing the air increases the oxygen available for combustion, potentially improving efficiency in terms of power relative to size and weight.
  • A participant notes that for rocket engines, the necessity of compression may vary; solid fuel rockets rely on thrust for pressure, while liquid fuel rockets require nozzle pressure to exceed thrust pressure, suggesting a different dynamic in energy output considerations.
  • Another participant emphasizes that to achieve more energy from fuel, a larger mass of air is needed to maintain an optimal stoichiometric air-fuel ratio, linking air mass to thrust generation through momentum change.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying views on the necessity and impact of compression across different engine types, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives on the topic.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not fully explored the implications of specific engine designs or the mathematical relationships governing energy output and compression, leaving some assumptions and dependencies unaddressed.

Who May Find This Useful

Individuals interested in engine mechanics, thermodynamics, and the efficiency of combustion processes may find this discussion relevant.

Dreamer 2008
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Internal combustion engines, Ram Jet, Turban engines etc. require that the air fuel mix be compressed. Is the compression of the air fuel mixture required to give a higher or more efficient energy output? Otherwise if the air fuel mix were at a static or ambient pressure vs. compressed would the energy output be different?
 
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Dreamer 2008 said:
Is the compression of the air fuel mixture required to give a higher or more efficient energy output?
For piston engines higher compression is better (as long as the octane is high enough to avoid pre-detonation). I'm not sure about turbines, ram and scram jets. Compressing the air first increases the amount of oxygen available to mixs with the fuel in jet engines, so it's more efficient in terms of power versus size and/or weight to compress the air.

For rocket engines, it probably doesn't matter much, for example, solid fuel rockets are pressurized by the thrust from the engine, but the rate of compression is very small. For liquid fuel rocket engine, the nozzle pressure just has to be greater than the pressure due to thrust from the rocket engine.
 
Dreamer 2008 said:
Is the compression of the air fuel mixture required to give a higher or more efficient energy output?
Pretty much, yes. The fuel has a specific amount of energy it can release on a unit mass or volume basis. Therefore, to get more energy, you need to burn more fuel. That more fuel requires a larger mass of air to keep the combustion near the optimal stoichometric air-fuel ratio. Not only that, but the thrust created by an engine is a result of the change in momentum of the air stream. The more air the engine pumps, the greater the momentum change that is possible.
 
Thanks Jeff and Fred that helps me a lot. I am sure I will have more questions later. I am quite curious about sterling engines such as delta t vs. torque out. But I need to formulate a proper question. Thanks again
 

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