Alabama Geometry lesson: How to shoot Obama

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Ivan Seeking
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An Alabama teacher has been suspended after a geometry lesson on the best angles to assassinate President Obama.

An Alabama teacher has been suspended after a national outcry for using an assassination attempt against President Obama to illustrate a maths problem to his class.

Gregory Harrison, the teacher at Corner High School in Jefferson County, Alabama, was to receive a slap on the wrist in the form of a "long conversation" with the local school authorities, after sparking a Secret Service investigation when he discussed possible angles to use in shooting at the president...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/richard-adams-blog/2010/may/19/teacher-alabama-assasination-obama

I think this deserves a lot more than a slap on the wrist.
 

Discussion

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Are people crazier now than in the past, or are they just less afraid of showing it?
 
Evo said:
Are people crazier now than in the past, or are they just less afraid of showing it?

I think this sort of thing has always been around, but some people are seeing red over our black President, and the media shines the lights on the nuts.

Personally, I think it's a good thing that we hear about this stuff. It is better than the days of the good-ole-boys when something like this could pass without objection. Now at least the idiots are made to look like idiots.
 
I wish I had teachers in school that was this cool :) Actually I did :)
 
magpies said:
I wish I had teachers in school that was this cool :) Actually I did :)

Why do you think it is cool to be an idiot? Is that the new thing?
 
Ivan Seeking said:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/richard-adams-blog/2010/may/19/teacher-alabama-assasination-obama

I think this deserves a lot more than a slap on the wrist.

I find it hilarious that he's teaching like this. But, anything to get conservative students interested in math, I suppose...

but such a problem would be best for a physics class that heavily uses differential calculus (rates of change and optimization and the like), not for a high school geometry class. Seriously, wait till college to use this problem.
 
Char. Limit said:
I find it hilarious that he's teaching like this. But, anything to get conservative students interested in math, I suppose...

Really? If math is involved, anything goes? How about problems involving the extermination of rednecks, or gays, or Catholics? Would that be okay as well. How about bomb making lessons?

What kind of message does this send to the students?

The responses seen here show that the nuts already have the sympathies of some young people. Young people often aren't capable of understanding the significance of something like this.
 
What if he used Bush as an example instead? Could we make this an exception?
 
Ivan Seeking said:
Really? If math is involved, anything goes? How about problems involving the extermination of rednecks, or gays, or Catholics? Would that be okay as well. How about bomb making lessons?

What kind of message does this send to the students?

The responses seen here show that the nuts already have the sympathies of some young people. Young people often aren't capable of understanding the significance of something like this.

Considering that this is Alabama, I doubt this teacher is sending the students any message they haven't already heard from their parents...

But joking aside (and the last post was a bit of a subtle joke), absolutely, we'd obviously need some restrictions. Hopefully, the Secret Service investigation taught this teacher what's wrong with his teaching methods. But we can't just throw him in jail... he hasn't been convicted of any crime other than two: a possible conspiracy charge, and a definite crime of being offensive to the court of public opinion. The first can be evaluated by a court, although I doubt it would go through, and the second isn't something we throw people in jail for.
 
Ivan you don't get it do you? The people on the side of freedom of speech don't think it's cool when they get bashed with witty words but they do understand that society is at it's best when you allow for it instead of trying to force everyone under a micro scope of pc. I mean really that is what america is about fighting for the rights of others. I'm sorry you don't think other people should have any rights and if that's what you want to preach go for it but just know that it will eventually result in something you may not enjoy.
 
There is a question in the homework thread about trebuchets - have we forgotten all the people that died in medieval wars?
 
Threatening the President of the United States is a crime.

wiki

Threatening the President of the United States is a class D felony under United States Code Title 18, Section 871. It consists of knowingly and willfully mailing or otherwise making "any threat to take the life of, to kidnap, or to inflict bodily harm upon the President of the United States". The United States Secret Service investigates suspected violations of this law and monitors those who have a history of threatening the President. Because the offense consists of pure speech, the courts have issued rulings attempting to balance the government's interest in protecting the President with free speech rights under the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States. According to Stalking, Threatening, and Attacking Public Figures, "Hundreds of celebrity howlers threaten the President of the United States every year, sometimes because they disagree with his policies, but more often just because he is the President.

class D felony

Less than 10 years but 5 or more years
 
Really and here I thought trying to undermine the kings authority was something that we all accepted as ok.
 
The question is not "Is threatening the president a crime?" The question is "Is this a threat as defined in the United States Code?" That, I believe, is a difficult question. Answer this, please: Did this teacher "willfully make a threat to take the life of" the President of the United States? If yes, then this is a felony and he will serve 5 to 10. If no, then he has not committed this crime. So... your answer?
 
Char. Limit said:
The question is not "Is threatening the president a crime?" The question is "Is this a threat as defined in the United States Code?" That, I believe, is a difficult question. Answer this, please: Did this teacher "willfully make a threat to take the life of" the President of the United States? If yes, then this is a felony and he will serve 5 to 10. If no, then he has not committed this crime. So... your answer?

It's clearly not a threat to the President as defined above. But that doesn't mean the teacher's OK -- just that this is for the board, not the courts, to decide. (Apparently they're not doing much...?)
 
Ivan Seeking said:
Really? If math is involved, anything goes? How about problems involving the extermination of rednecks, or gays, or Catholics? Would that be okay as well. How about bomb making lessons?

What kind of message does this send to the students?

The responses seen here show that the nuts already have the sympathies of some young people. Young people often aren't capable of understanding the significance of something like this.

What does go as far as 'tasteless' physics problems?

Would mgb_phys's trebuchet problem be acceptable as long as the problem doesn't get graphic about the deaths?

How about this problem: In an alternate reality during the '99 Womens World Cup, referee Nicole Petignat calls a retake of a sudden death PK that Briana Scurry blocked, saying Scurry came off her line too early (she did come off her line way too early in the real reality, but Petignat made no call).

Seeing as how the call could have cost the USA the Womens World Cup title and the game was played in the US in the Rose Bowl in front of packed crowd of about 100,000, the fans would probably be pretty irate. If all of them held up a 1 meter square mirror to reflect the sunlight onto referee Nicole Petignat's head, how long would it take for the blood in her brain to reach boiling point?

Is that an acceptable physics problem? Or is the means of death a little too graphic? Or is it using the referee's actual name that makes the problem a little too specific?

Or is it specifically using an example that kills a specific world leader that makes the problem unacceptable?

I think the example was in poor taste. I'm not sure where the line should be drawn on punishing poor taste, though.
 
For me it's the fact that it was a high school teacher using a real person as a hypothetical target in his classroom of students.
 
He's a sick teacher

Another student said: "We were going over a test and getting reviewed for our finals and were going over tangency. A student walked in and said, 'Well, if you shoot the president...' and the teacher picked up on it and said, 'OK, if you shoot off his ear, that is a point of tangency.'"
 
I'm inclined to give more leeway to an unplanned, off-the-cuff remark than a homework assignment.
 
Evo said:
For me it's the fact that it was a high school teacher using a real person as a hypothetical target in his classroom of students.

I'd definitely consider that as being over the line, but I might even consider some non-specific person problems as being over the line just for being too graphic.

It's almost like asking which is the worse video game: http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/jfkreloaded/index.html. JFK Reloaded obviously, but is there any redeeming value in Grand Theft Auto?

Just using shooting the ear off as an example of tangency is going too far, even if not naming a specific person.

Still don't think I would have suspended him, though, unless he had a prior record for tasteless class examples.
 
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BobG said:
Just using shooting the ear off as an example of tangency is going too far, even if not naming a specific person.

Still don't think I would have suspended him, though, unless he had a prior record for tasteless class examples.

I wouldn't have suspended him just for that remark, but surely for the assignment. Even if just for a week or something to give the board time to consider it properly...
 
mgb_phys said:
There is a question in the homework thread about trebuchets - have we forgotten all the people that died in medieval wars?

heh.

if this were somebody in hollywood making a movie about it, it wouldn't be an issue. but coming from an authority figure, kids might get the wrong idea that it is okay to assault others with trebuchets.
 
I have to go with Bob on this. Is it bad that he is referring to the president? Or maybe that he is using shooting someone as an example in the first place?

I don't care that he referred to the president. I had teachers that said a lot of stupid things when I was in school. No one really cared. Half of them probably weren't listening in the first place. This teacher got their attention probably. And I seriously doubt that his example had any greater of effect on them then playing GTA, Saints Row, Halo, Gears of War, or any other of hundreds of video games out there involving shooting cops, assassinating people, killing random little old ladies, ect ect.

Not very tasteful. Slap on the wrist. I do not see what else there is to do. Fire him? For making a poor joke? Ridiculous.
 
Proton Soup said:
but coming from an authority figure, kids might get the wrong idea that it is okay to assault others with trebuchets.
My government will be tough on siege warfare and tough on the causes of siege warfare.
 
Its not hard to kill the president, the point is, most people don't do it. Its just sillypants pointless. The teacher who used geometry to plot it is just tasteless and unethical. A slap on the wrist is not really enough, you are talking about multiple issues here, from racism to anarchism and disrespect of authority. He should be fired for this, and someone with brains should come in and talk to these kids about importance of government and respecting authoritay.

Now on the other hand, this is not a criminal matter unless the teacher owns a sniper rifle and made threats on the president's life in the past.

And I do want to stress out that it is really easy to kill the president. Its just so unethical, immoral, and totally absurd. To take a life, let alone a life of a man who has achieved so much where others have failed, is just inhuman.
 
No, cronxeh. It is not racism. Just because it involves someone who isn't white doesn't mean it's racist! People tell me they're tired of constantly being labeled racists, and I tell them "come on, surely it isn't that prevalent." But then they show me that it really is that prevalent. Maybe he just doesn't like the president. A lot of black guys didn't like Bush, are they racist for it? Of course not. But have a white guy, especially a southern white guy, dislike the president and the bloody flag of racism goes up.

What I'm trying to say is, this guy isn't necessarily racist, just because he's white and southern. Let's not assume the worst.
 
Char. Limit said:
No, cronxeh. It is not racism. Just because it involves someone who isn't white doesn't mean it's racist! People tell me they're tired of constantly being labeled racists, and I tell them "come on, surely it isn't that prevalent." But then they show me that it really is that prevalent. Maybe he just doesn't like the president. A lot of black guys didn't like Bush, are they racist for it? Of course not. But have a white guy, especially a southern white guy, dislike the president and the bloody flag of racism goes up.

What I'm trying to say is, this guy isn't necessarily racist, just because he's white and southern. Let's not assume the worst.

People did not like Bush because they labeled him as a stupid redneck. Now people don't like Obama not for what he does for the regular people, but for who he is, a black guy with a muslim middle name. It is racism, even though they can't pinpoint just what exactly they hate about him.
 
cronxeh said:
People did not like Bush because they labeled him as a stupid redneck. Now people don't like Obama not for what he does for the regular people, but for who he is, a black guy with a muslim middle name. It is racism, even though they can't pinpoint just what exactly they hate about him.


Is this a serious post? Are you really claiming that those who don't like Obama are racist? Because your post certainly comes off that way to me. I didn't know I was a racist, simply because I don't support some of Obama's policies, or think he could be doing a lot better...

I sincerely hope that I misinterpreted your post. I'm shivering if I didn't.
 
Char. Limit said:
Is this a serious post? Are you really claiming that those who don't like Obama are racist? Because your post certainly comes off that way to me. I didn't know I was a racist, simply because I don't support some of Obama's policies, or think he could be doing a lot better...

I sincerely hope that I misinterpreted your post. I'm shivering if I didn't.

The teacher who used geometry to plot it is just tasteless and unethical. A slap on the wrist is not really enough, you are talking about multiple issues here, from racism to anarchism and disrespect of authority.

Racism in this particular teacher's case as he is discussing murder, and dislike in the general case of people who just don't like him.

because I don't support some of Obama's policies, or think he could be doing a lot better

You do realize that the legislative branch makes the laws? Obama is merely the #1 cop in this country, responsible for enforcing these laws.
 
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"Hatred is the coward's revenge for being intimidated." (George Bernard Shaw)

True here. As for racism, as cronxeh says you can rarely point to one case unless it's a tea-bagger with Obama as a witch-doctor. This does not change the fact that given what Bush "accomplished" vs. Obama's fairly tame 2 years, the hatred and hysteria around Obama is out of proportion. I do not believe that it is possible for a reasonable person to conclude that racism does not play a role in this.

Obama could be doing better, but compare him to W., and you'd think the hatred and fear would be greater for the one who has gotten us into two wars ans could barely speak, instead of someone who's healthcare policies you disagree with. How can anyone watching Fox News, and psychotics such as Glenn Beck and Limbaugh NOT conclude that racism is part of the fuel for their fire?

For the OP, no physics problem outside of sniper training in a military should involve calculating a ballistic trajectory to kill a person.