Alabama Geometry lesson: How to shoot Obama

[Gokul43201]

People did not like Bush because they labeled him as a stupid redneck. Now people don't like Obama not for what he does for the regular people, but for who he is, a black guy with a muslim middle name. It is racism, even though they can't pinpoint just what exactly they hate about him.

This is beyond comprehension. Are you seriously arguing that anyone who dislikes Obama feels that way due to racism?

 

[IcedEcliptic]

This is beyond comprehension. Are you seriously arguing that anyone who dislikes Obama feels that way due to racism?

I wish to be clear at least, I do not believe that dislike of Obama requires racism, I believe that a significant subset of the American population is racist and has a measure of issue with him. There is an element of fear and hatred in some corners that makes the extreme left hatred of W. look tame. That said, I think that Obama is doing a mediocre job in a situation that requires more of him. I question his honesty (2008 he got the most money from BP) given his apparent moral cowardice and willingness to maintain a status quo that is unsustainable.

I don't hate him, and I am only bigoted against stupid people. Bush W. on the other hand...

 

[cronxeh]

This is beyond comprehension. Are you seriously arguing that anyone who dislikes Obama feels that way due to racism?

If you re-read the other post I said anyone who dislikes and wants to kill him is motivated by racism. Its modern day lynching.

But anyway, Gokul I hate to do this, but you live in Cambridge, MA right? Only 11% black population, 68% whites. On your way to work how many black people do you encounter? How many do you work with? Have you ever had the pleasure of doing 90% of the work while your black co-workers just 'chilled' and not done their part?

In some areas of the country people are seriously upset with the black population. They see them as welfare-sucking drug-selling baby-popping group of non-people. Then they look at the President who stands for more social programs, more welfare, less taxes for the poor, more jobs for the poor and middle class, and some people see him as the evil force behind this attitude.

Statistics, by the way, don't support this welfare idea. Almost half of people on welfare are white.

 

[Gokul43201]

If you re-read the other post I said anyone who dislikes and wants to kill him is motivated by racism. Its modern day lynching.

(emphasis mine)

In a majority of cases among a certain population group this may very well be true. But it's not clear to me that the teacher has demonstrated a desire to kill. It may have simply been an absent-minded response to a question. I'm willing to grant the benefit of doubt in the absence of a demonstrated desire.

I note, however, that given how susceptible to suggestion children are, this becomes a lot more dangerous an error, even if it were just that.

But anyway, Gokul I hate to do this, but you live in Cambridge, MA right? Only 11% black population, 68% whites. On your way to work how many black people do you encounter? How many do you work with? Have you ever had the pleasure of doing 90% of the work while your black co-workers just 'chilled' and not done their part?

I think I'm missing the point behind this line of questioning, but to answer the questions: I encounter a few black people on my way to work, and far fewer still at work, and therefore have not had the experience you speak of (fictional or otherwise) having had zero black co-workers. I have occasionally interacted with two black persons at work (I work at a large department in a large university), and have not gotten the impression at all that they "just chilled" and didn't do their work.

In some areas of the country people are seriously upset with the black population. They see them as welfare-sucking drug-selling baby-popping group of non-people. Then they look at the President who stands for more social programs, more welfare, less taxes for the poor, more jobs for the poor and middle class, and some people see him as the evil force behind this attitude.

Statistics, by the way, don't support this welfare idea. Almost half of people on welfare are white.

If less than half the people on welfare are white, while three-fourths of the population is, that suggests that whites are using proportionately less of the welfare budget than others.

 

[IcedEcliptic]

In a majority of cases among a certain population group this may very well be true. But it's not clear to me that the teacher has demonstrated a desire to kill. It may have simply been an absent-minded response to a question. I'm willing to grant the benefit of doubt in the absence of a demonstrated desire.

I note, however, that given how susceptible to suggestion children are, this becomes a lot more dangerous an error, even if it were just that.

I think I'm missing the point behind this line of questioning, but to answer the questions: I encounter a few black people on my way to work, and far fewer still at work, and therefore have not had the experience you speak of (fictional or otherwise) having had zero black co-workers. I have occasionally interacted with two black persons at work (I work at a large department in a large university), and have not gotten the impression at all that they "just chilled" and didn't do their work.

If less than half the people on welfare are white, while three-fourths of the population is, that suggests that whites are using proportionately less of the welfare budget than others.

He's describing an attitude that really is very typical, not reality, the perception. I've seen this myself all too often in NC for one.

 

[Char. Limit]

He's describing an attitude that really is very typical, not reality, the perception. I've seen this myself all too often in NC for one.

He said "anyone", not "some".

 

[Gokul43201]

He's describing an attitude that really is very typical, not reality, the perception. I've seen this myself all too often in NC for one.

I'm not disputing the existence or prevalence of certain attitudes. But the strong prevalence of certain attitudes among certain demographics should hardly be just cause to throw the book at one specific person belonging to that demographic but of as yet undetermined attitude.

 

[BobG]

People did not like Bush because they labeled him as a stupid redneck. Now people don't like Obama not for what he does for the regular people, but for who he is, a black guy with a muslim middle name. It is racism, even though they can't pinpoint just what exactly they hate about him.

I'm sure racism has an effect on Obama's popularity. But it's far from the only effect.

Does Rush Limbaugh, et al, treat Obama any worse than he treated Clinton? And we're a society that's fairly polarized by party right now - to the point that party affiliation seems to determine peoples' views on issues vs the issues determing their party preference.

In fact, I'll bet Obama belonging to the same party as the President has to hurt his popularity. In other words, even if he were still an Illinois Senator, he'd be less popular.

In spite of the popularity of Obama's campaign slogans, most people are uncomfortable with change. The possibility of Democrats actually accomplishing some of the changes they've desired for the past decade makes a lot of people have second thoughts about whether they really want those changes. Check this Gallup poll on abortion over the years: Would you consider yourself to be pro-choice or pro-life.

What Earth shattering event happened between 2008 and 2009 to change peoples' views so drastically? Was it electing a black President or a Democratic President? Or completely different happen to change peoples' views on abortion?

 

[Char. Limit]

Not to derail that thread, but I found it interesting that 66% of men thought most men would use a male birth control pill, if it existed, while only 35% of women believe the same way. Oh ye of little faith (in men), perhaps?

 

[Hurkyl]

I, for one, don't have enough faith in the press to get worked up over the article -- it's exactly what I would expect to see if the whole thing was in good humor, but some zealot decided to get fanatical over things.

Now that I think of it, there is nothing in the reporting talking about how hateful the teacher is. I'm beginning to find it quite likely that nothing happened that warrants getting riled up over.

 

[turbo]

I was 11 when President Kennedy was assassinated. I don't find it amusing or even tolerable for a public servant to use political assassination as a motivating factor to interest students in geometry, physics, etc.

 

[zomgwtf]

I think what's weird about this is that it's being used as a motivational/interesting factor in the question. Something to 'make you want to complete the whole problem to get the answer'.

The difference with the trebuchets is that studying medieval people killing each other IS interesting and it's a past event. Anyways that's mostly done in physics, not in geometry. In calculus I think we one time had a question about a cannon ball but that was it. It was completely non-violent.

In physics we had trebuchet like questions or arrow questions all the time but they never involved killing people. However if they did I could see it being more along the lines of historical than anything.

In this case we're talking about the 'potential future' (however unlikely it is). Not only just 'the potential future' but that of the President of USA... who gets by far the most amount of death threats than any other president (AFAIK). He's a highly public figure and people will be quick to draw the seriousness of a 'plot' to kill him... vastly different than 'Johnny has a gun high should Johnny aim to hit Bob in his head if ...'. Compare that to 'Johnny has a gun, at what angle should Johnny shoot to hit the Pope in the head if ... ' Even if the teacher used real students names in his class (mine used to do this all the time) it would be seen as comical... there's no 'realness' factor to it because these students most likely wouldn'tw ant to assassinate one another.

I think that this teacher should be more than just suspended, I'm not sure what though. I mean I don't think he should be arrested I highly doubt he intends or had intended to make a threat to the president. Maybe he should lose his position though? Even that sounds too harsh.

 

[IcedEcliptic]

I'm not disputing the existence or prevalence of certain attitudes. But the strong prevalence of certain attitudes among certain demographics should hardly be just cause to throw the book at one specific person belonging to that demographic but of as yet undetermined attitude.

I was not defending such a broad stroke, but I also took his statement in the context he apparently intended.

Not to derail that thread, but I found it interesting that 66% of men thought most men would use a male birth control pill, if it existed, while only 35% of women believe the same way. Oh ye of little faith (in men), perhaps?

Or... this could be a case of women making a dispassionate assessment, and men displaying their DECLARED preference, rather than the more accurate revealed preference. It is very easy to say you would take a pill that does not exist, and therefore has no risk, than it is to ask a woman for whom a range of choices exist.

----

Back to the subject at hand, Is the person holding an "Obama as witch-doctor" sign more, less, or equally racist as the people around them who fail to comment or act?

 

[IcedEcliptic]

I think what's weird about this is that it's being used as a motivational/interesting factor in the question. Something to 'make you want to complete the whole problem to get the answer'.

The difference with the trebuchets is that studying medieval people killing each other IS interesting and it's a past event. Anyways that's mostly done in physics, not in geometry. In calculus I think we one time had a question about a cannon ball but that was it. It was completely non-violent.

In physics we had trebuchet like questions or arrow questions all the time but they never involved killing people. However if they did I could see it being more along the lines of historical than anything.

In this case we're talking about the 'potential future' (however unlikely it is). Not only just 'the potential future' but that of the President of USA... who gets by far the most amount of death threats than any other president (AFAIK). He's a highly public figure and people will be quick to draw the seriousness of a 'plot' to kill him... vastly different than 'Johnny has a gun high should Johnny aim to hit Bob in his head if ...'. Compare that to 'Johnny has a gun, at what angle should Johnny shoot to hit the Pope in the head if ... ' Even if the teacher used real students names in his class (mine used to do this all the time) it would be seen as comical... there's no 'realness' factor to it because these students most likely wouldn'tw ant to assassinate one another.

I think that this teacher should be more than just suspended, I'm not sure what though. I mean I don't think he should be arrested I highly doubt he intends or had intended to make a threat to the president. Maybe he should lose his position though? Even that sounds too harsh.

How about testing his trajectory work with live rounds, with him as the target? Inject a little reality into these violent fantasies that seem so common in cowards.

 

[CRGreathouse]

If you re-read the other post I said anyone who dislikes and wants to kill him is motivated by racism. Its modern day lynching.

How do you come to that conclusion? Many US presidents have been assassinated, none apparently for racist reasons.

I count 17 assassination attempts on 15 US presidents. Assuming that it's roughly as difficult to assassinate one president as another, that's roughly 1-in-3 odds of having an assassination attempt on you. So if Obama was to be subject to an assassination attempt, it's not clear that it would be on account of racism.

In particular, assuming for a moment that Presidential assassination attempts are Poisson-distributed, lambda is approximately 0.077 attempts per year in office. In the time since assuming the Presidency, we might therefore expect that (*without* racist factors) he would have been subject to at least one assassination attempt with 10% probability.

 

[IcedEcliptic]

How do you come to that conclusion? Many US presidents have been assassinated, none apparently for racist reasons.

I count 17 assassination attempts on 15 US presidents. Assuming that it's roughly as difficult to assassinate one president as another, that's roughly 1-in-3 odds of having an assassination attempt on you. So if Obama was to be subject to an assassination attempt, it's not clear that it would be on account of racism.

In particular, assuming for a moment that Presidential assassination attempts are Poisson-distributed, lambda is approximately 0.077 attempts per year in office. In the time since assuming the Presidency, we might therefore expect that (*without* racist factors) he would have been subject to at least one assassination attempt with 10% probability.

I didn't realize that the motivations for JFK's assassination was so understood. Lincoln also springs to mind, although that was declared to be a fight against tyranny... much like the racist nuts of today rail about encroaching Nazism (Glenn Beck), or Marxism. Of course, you've only had white male presidents until now, so not a great sample.

 

[Proton Soup]

Or... this could be a case of women making a dispassionate assessment, and men displaying their DECLARED preference, rather than the more accurate revealed preference. It is very easy to say you would take a pill that does not exist, and therefore has no risk, than it is to ask a woman for whom a range of choices exist.

oh, it exists, but you've got as much chance of popularizing a testicle-shrinking solution in men as you would a breast-shrinking solution in women. not. gonna. happen.

 

[IcedEcliptic]

oh, it exists, but you've got as much chance of popularizing a testicle-shrinking solution in men as you would a breast-shrinking solution in women. not. gonna. happen.

Given that some women have breast-reduction surgery, your point is even more profound! I know that I want my twig and berries, not a stump and raisins.

 

[CRGreathouse]

Of course, you've only had white male presidents until now, so not a great sample.

Actually, that was rather the point. If the thesis is that an assassination (attempt) on Obama would be racist*, take the level of assassination (attempts) against white male presidents as a baseline and compare.

* Relevant: http://www.theonion.com/video/man-attempts-to-assassinate-obama-but-not-because,17220/

 

[IcedEcliptic]

Actually, that was rather the point. If the thesis is that an assassination (attempt) on Obama would be racist*, take the level of assassination (attempts) against white male presidents as a baseline and compare.

* Relevant: http://www.theonion.com/video/man-attempts-to-assassinate-obama-but-not-because,17220/

I believe the comparison was number of threats, but either way, I don't consider that to be a useful metric. The racism is clear if you are willing to talk to the... wrong... people, and listen. That said, it is the hysterical media that seems to fuel so much of this, along with the economy, and wars. Racism is there, and a factor, but deliberate misinformation and manipulation of gullible twits is probably a much greater factor.

 

[WhoWee]

Are people crazier now than in the past, or are they just less afraid of showing it?

They have been conditioned:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0853096/

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0102138/

 

[Char. Limit]

I believe the comparison was number of threats, but either way, I don't consider that to be a useful metric. The racism is clear if you are willing to talk to the... wrong... people, and listen. That said, it is the hysterical media that seems to fuel so much of this, along with the economy, and wars. Racism is there, and a factor, but deliberate misinformation and manipulation of gullible twits is probably a much greater factor.

First, remember that for any viewpoint you can think of, even authoritarian anarchism (the new A.A.), there's someone who supports it.

Now, it's true that there are racists, and they get a lot of coverage because the media (FOX included) loves a scandal. How often have you heard about the guy who disagrees with Obama or Bush because of their policies? Not much. How often have you heard about the guy who called Obama a Kenyan or Bush retarded? A lot more.

Note: The above statements are my perceptions, and have not been fact-checked. They sound really right, though.

Also, for almost every racist you have (I'm thinking a 4:5 ratio here), you have someone else inappropriately playing the race card. I'm sure we all remember how a certain Congressman whose name escapes me was branded a racist for daring to call the President a liar (during the President's speech too... almost Kanyesque in its bad taste), with the branders including Jimmy Carter and others. Now I'm not saying that the race card is never well played (Don Imus totally deserved it), but there are a great deal of instances where it is played badly, at the wrong time. It really devalues the meaning of the word "racism", just as radfems have devalued the meaning of the word "feminism", or theoneocons have devalued the meaning of the word "conservative".

Now that I've forgotten the purpose of this post (I'm not old!), I'll just leave it there. Hopefully someone else can figure out what I'm trying to say, because on the iPod it slipped my mind...

 

[WhoWee]

"Hatred is the coward's revenge for being intimidated." (George Bernard Shaw)

True here. As for racism, as cronxeh says you can rarely point to one case unless it's a tea-bagger with Obama as a witch-doctor. This does not change the fact that given what Bush "accomplished" vs. Obama's fairly tame 2 years, the hatred and hysteria around Obama is out of proportion. I do not believe that it is possible for a reasonable person to conclude that racism does not play a role in this.

Obama could be doing better, but compare him to W., and you'd think the hatred and fear would be greater for the one who has gotten us into two wars ans could barely speak, instead of someone who's healthcare policies you disagree with. How can anyone watching Fox News, and psychotics such as Glenn Beck and Limbaugh NOT conclude that racism is part of the fuel for their fire?

For the OP, no physics problem outside of sniper training in a military should involve calculating a ballistic trajectory to kill a person.

Why don't you try supporting a few of your comments? You are taking a lot of liberty with your posts.

 

[IcedEcliptic]

Why don't you try supporting a few of your comments? You are taking a lot of liberty with your posts.

What is a lounge for if not for lounging? Like Char.Limit, I can only base these statements on media coverage and personal experiences, and don't pretend otherwise. Take CNN's recent so-called racism study with children, it LOOKS damning, but offhand I can think of a number of holes in their methodology. Yet, it looks terrible, so people will believe the worst. Really, it struck me as a terribly constructed study, with no valid results.

For Beck at least, anyone who conflates socialism, with nazism (which was socialist in name only) is showing the kind of casual disregard for those millions of Jews, Catholics, Blacks, Gypsies, ans Homosexuals who were exterminated outside of combat during WWII. Perhaps I am more used to identifying racism as I have seen it in the many international varieties. There is such a thing as inciting others to draw a natural conclusion, and there is collusion. If you were in the midst of an anti-war protest and saw someone with a picture of a US military officer dressed as a Nazi, or covered in blood or the like, would you not say something? If not, and you continue to associate yourself with that movement, don't you take some responsibility for your silence? Obama-as-Witch Doctor, and you have a similar issue.

 

[OmCheeto]

Alabama Math Lesson:

If in a 100 cubic foot chamber, 3 canisters of Zyklon B will kill 7 Jews, how many canisters of Zyklon B will be required to kill 13 Jews?

Alabama Physics Lesson:

If the modulus of elasticity of a Rwandan child's skull is 3, and that of a Rwandan adult is 17, how much easier is it to crush the skull of the child with a machete vs that of the adult?

Alabama Economics Lesson:

If 14 Albanian's have an average worth of $50 each, and you kill them all, how will this affect the local economy?

-----------------

Turning humans into math problems involving death strikes me as a bit dehumanizing.

Dehumanizing people is a bad thing.

arrogance, dogma, or ignorance? what was the teacher guilty of?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/8mIfatdNqBA&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/8mIfatdNqBA&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

 

[IcedEcliptic]

Alabama Math Lesson:

If in a 100 cubic foot chamber, 3 canisters of Zyklon B will kill 7 Jews, how many canisters of Zyklon B will be required to kill 13 Jews?

Alabama Physics Lesson:

If the modulus of elasticity of a Rwandan child's skull is 3, and that of a Rwandan adult is 17, how much easier is it to crush the skull of the child with a machete vs that of the adult?

Alabama Economics Lesson:

If 14 Albanian's have an average worth of $50 each, and you kill them all, how will this affect the local economy?

-----------------

Turning humans into math problems involving death strikes me as a bit dehumanizing.

Dehumanizing people is a bad thing.

arrogance, dogma, or ignorance? what was the teacher guilty of?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/8mIfatdNqBA&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/8mIfatdNqBA&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

If you remove the races and other elements, it's just as disturbing for the reason you say; leave the calculus of death to medicine and soldiering, where it is necessary.

 

[Hurkyl]

How about testing his trajectory work with live rounds, with him as the target? Inject a little reality into these violent fantasies that seem so common in cowards.

Breaking news: PhysicsForums member banned after a forum outcry for using the murder of a high school teacher in a discussion.


Disclaimer: above news is purely fictional[/size]

 

[pallidin]

You know, it's funny.
If the geometry lesson "victim" was a 6-yr old child on a swing set I suspect there would be a virtually universal outcry for firring the teacher.

 

[IcedEcliptic]

Breaking news: PhysicsForums member banned after a forum outcry for using the murder of a high school teacher in a discussion.Disclaimer: above news is purely fictional[/size]

I have no interest in seeing this person killed, it is simple hyperbole.

I should add, I was simply requesting that he grade those tests in a uniquely empirical fashion.

 

[Proton Soup]

What is a lounge for if not for lounging? Like Char.Limit, I can only base these statements on media coverage and personal experiences, and don't pretend otherwise. Take CNN's recent so-called racism study with children, it LOOKS damning, but offhand I can think of a number of holes in their methodology. Yet, it looks terrible, so people will believe the worst. Really, it struck me as a terribly constructed study, with no valid results.

For Beck at least, anyone who conflates socialism, with nazism (which was socialist in name only) is showing the kind of casual disregard for those millions of Jews, Catholics, Blacks, Gypsies, ans Homosexuals who were exterminated outside of combat during WWII. Perhaps I am more used to identifying racism as I have seen it in the many international varieties. There is such a thing as inciting others to draw a natural conclusion, and there is collusion. If you were in the midst of an anti-war protest and saw someone with a picture of a US military officer dressed as a Nazi, or covered in blood or the like, would you not say something? If not, and you continue to associate yourself with that movement, don't you take some responsibility for your silence? Obama-as-Witch Doctor, and you have a similar issue.

hey, how about this one?

Religious nationalism is to religion what National Socialism is to socialism