Alkali Metal Thermal Electric Conversion (AMTEC)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the concept of Alkali Metal Thermal Electric Conversion (AMTEC) and its potential applications, particularly in nuclear thermal energy conversion to electricity. Participants explore its feasibility for spacecraft propulsion and submarines, addressing efficiency, operational longevity, and stealth concerns.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant highlights the potential of AMTEC for high-power conversion of nuclear thermal energy, noting its operational temperature limit of 1400°C as sufficient for nuclear applications.
  • Another participant mentions the use of thermoelectric effects in existing spacecraft, citing the Voyager missions, and discusses the advantages of nuclear thermoelectric systems in terms of lifetime and reliability despite low efficiency.
  • Some participants propose that ocean water could serve as a cooling mechanism for the thermoelectric circuit, while also acknowledging the challenge of low power output with current materials.
  • Concerns are raised about the impact on stealth for submarines, particularly regarding the thermal plume generated by the reactor, with questions about how to quantify stealthiness compared to other energy disposal methods.
  • A later reply references rumors of nuclear submarines leaving detectable thermal trails, suggesting that submariners might be cautious about increasing heat output significantly.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a mix of viewpoints, with some agreeing on the potential benefits of AMTEC while others raise concerns about efficiency and stealth. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the trade-offs between energy output and stealth in submarine applications.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include assumptions about the efficiency of current materials, the operational parameters of nuclear systems, and the specific conditions affecting stealth detection.

sanman
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Here's an interesting technology I came across:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alkali-metal_thermal_to_electric_converter

So, from this I take it that a means of high-power conversion of nuclear thermal energy to electricity could be achieved. It says it only works upto 1400C, but that seems fine enough for conversion of nuclear thermal energy.

The nice thing is that it's thermally regenerative, which will facilitate continuous operation over long periods. It seems like it would be a nice way to allow nuclear-electric propulsion for spacecraft .
 
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The thermo electric effect is real. It is used on the Voyager 1 and 2 spacecraft .

I once heard an admiral propose nuclear thermo electric for submarines. It is less than 5% efficient, but that matters little. What does matter is lifetime, simplicity, reliability, and simple end-of-life disposal of waste. The admiral saw all four of those measures as favorable for the idea.
 
The idea has some advantages, as ocean water could serve as the cold end of the thermoelectric circuit.
The challenge is the low power output of the concept with current materials. There is also a real loss of stealth if the sub pumps 95% of the reactor energy into the creation of a thermal plume
 
etudiant said:
There is also a real loss of stealth if the sub pumps 95% of the reactor energy into the creation of a thermal plume
Good point. But how to calculate relative stealthiness compared to dumping 67% of the energy as a thermal plume?
 
There have long been rumors that nuclear subs leave long lasting contrails of slightly warmer water behind them, trails that sometimes can eventually be detected by satellite IR sensors, presumably at night when sun glint is not an issue. So I'd expect the submariners to be reluctant to dump 20x more heat per effective horsepower rather than 2x.
 

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