Ambiguity in finding errors using natural logarithm method

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around error propagation in electrical circuits, specifically focusing on the calculation of errors associated with resistances and currents using formulas. Participants are examining the correct application of error propagation methods and the formulas involved.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Conceptual clarification

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to clarify their understanding of error propagation formulas and questions the inclusion of certain terms in their calculations. Other participants question the correctness of the formulas presented and suggest that there may be sign errors. There is also a discussion about how to approach learning this topic in a non-English context.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging in clarifying the formulas and addressing potential errors. Some guidance has been offered regarding the general approach to error propagation, but there is no explicit consensus on the correctness of the original poster's equations.

Contextual Notes

There is mention of language barriers affecting the original poster's ability to find resources, and participants are discussing the terminology used in English textbooks related to error propagation.

AdrianMachin
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Homework Statement


[/B]
I was reviewing this stuff and although I excelled at it once, I seem to forget some of it.
For example, please consider this:

Homework Equations



R_C=\frac {R_1R_2} {R_1+R_2} + R_3

Here's the correct formula for its error:

\Delta R_C=\frac {R_1R_2} {R_1+R_2} \left[ \frac {\Delta R_1} {R_1} +\frac {\Delta R_2} {R_2} <br /> +\frac {\Delta R_1 + \Delta R_2} {R_1+R_2}\right] + \Delta R_3

While mine would be this and I don't know what happened to the \Delta R_3 in the formula above:

\Delta R_C=\frac {R_1R_2} {R_1+R_2} \left[ \frac {\Delta R_1} {R_1} +\frac {\Delta R_2} {R_2} <br /> +\frac {\Delta R_1 + \Delta R_2} {R_1+R_2} + \frac {\Delta R_3} {R_3}\right]

Another equation is:

I_1=\frac {R_3V_1+R_2(V_1+V_2)} {R_1R_2+R_2R_3+R_3R_1}

Which I don't know the correct solution to finding its error, but here's my attempt at a solution:

The Attempt at a Solution



\Delta I_1= I_1 \left[ \frac {\Delta R_3 \Delta V_1+\Delta R_2 \Delta V_1+ \Delta R_2 \Delta V_2} {R_3V_1 + R_2(V_1+V_2)} + \frac {\Delta R_1 \Delta R_2+ \Delta R_2 \Delta R_3+ \Delta R_3 \Delta R_1} {R_1R_2+R_2R_3+R_3R_1}\right]

Is this correct, if not, why?

Thank you in advance.
 
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For random errors in R1, R2 and R3,
in general dF(x,y,z) = ∂F/∂x dx + ∂F/∂y dy + ∂F/∂z dz
where x, y and z are independent variables.
Apply this to your F(R1,R2,R3).
Fractional error is dF/F.
 
AdrianMachin said:
Here's the correct formula for its error:
Are you sure? I think it has a sign error.
AdrianMachin said:
While mine would be this
I have no idea how you end up with the ΔR3 inside the bracket.
AdrianMachin said:
, if not, why?
Impossible to say without seeing your working.
 
haruspex said:
Are you sure? I think it has a sign error.
Well, as far as I know, I heard that we don't have any negative signs in error equations... I mean between the delta terms.

haruspex said:
I have no idea how you end up with the ΔR3 inside the bracket.
How can I brush up on this topic? I'm studying in a different language than English so I can't find English resources for this topic on the Internet. What is this topic called in English textbooks or on the internet? I'm not sure if I do the beginnings right.
 
AdrianMachin said:
How can I brush up on this topic? I'm studying in a different language than English so I can't find English resources for this topic on the Internet. What is this topic called in English textbooks or on the internet? I'm not sure if I do the beginnings right.
Browse "error propagation".
Calculating the absolute error of a function of several independent variables, F(x, y, z...) take the partial derivatives, multiply each with its error and add the absolute values, or add the squares and take the square root of the sum.
The relative error is (ΔF)/F.
In case of multiplication or division, you can add the individual errors, in case of other function you need to determine the partial derivatives.
 
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AdrianMachin said:
Well, as far as I know, I heard that we don't have any negative signs in error equations... I mean between the delta terms.How can I brush up on this topic? I'm studying in a different language than English so I can't find English resources for this topic on the Internet. What is this topic called in English textbooks or on the internet? I'm not sure if I do the beginnings right.
Posts #2 and #5 have explained how to figure out the expressions. Follow those and post your working.
 
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