Analysis, Proof about, f being continuous, bijective

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of a non-decreasing function f: R→R that maps the rationals Q to Q as a bijection. The original poster expresses confusion regarding the implications of the function's mapping and its continuity, particularly in the context of different cardinalities between R and Q.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the meaning of f mapping Q to Q and its relevance to the overall function from R to R. Questions arise about the implications of the function being non-decreasing and the nature of its bijection on the rationals. There is also discussion about the mapping of irrational numbers and the potential for creating bijections between different sets.

Discussion Status

Some participants have offered guidance on how to approach the proof, suggesting steps to show continuity and the existence of a unique extension of the function. However, there remains a lack of consensus on certain terms, such as "unique extension," indicating ongoing clarification and exploration of concepts.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the importance of the hypothesis regarding the mapping of Q to Q and question how this relates to the properties of the function on the reals. There is also mention of the uncountability of the irrationals and their relationship to the reals, which adds complexity to the discussion.

Robert IL
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Let f: R[tex]\rightarrow[/tex]R be a non-decreasing function. Suppose that f maps Q to Q and f: Q[tex]\rightarrow[/tex]Q bijection. Prove that f: R[tex]\rightarrow[/tex]R is continuous, one to one and onto.

Hello everyone, I have been staring at this statement for a while now and I just don't understand it, hence I can't even begin to prove it. Can someone explain to me in different words what am I being asked to do. Is f the same same function and Q[tex]\rightarrow[/tex]Q is somehow "inside" R[tex]\rightarrow[/tex]R. I don't understand how f could be the same if R and Q don't have the same cardinality, or in other words-I am lost. Any type of help is greatly appreciated.
 
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f maps Q to Q means that if q is in Q, f(q) is also in Q.
I am assuming (unless otherwise noted) that Q stands for the rationals.
 
Yes, Q=rationals, R=reals; but how and why is mapping of Q to Q relevant here, since I am later asked about map of function R to R?
 
It is relevant because it is a critical hypothesis for the problem. You are also given that f is non decreasing and that f restricted to Q is a bijection. Think about what the map f restricted to Q looks like. Where does f(q) go to?

Now, where does f map the irrational points to?
 
Since I=irrationals are uncountable and so are reals I guess we could create a bijection between the two (not sure if I am correct here), but I suppose I would be mapped to R.
 
Ah, I deleted my previous post, what I said was incorrect!. But... let me try to be more helpful: try this outline of a proof (if you like):

1) show that the restriction of f to Q is continuous (treat Q as a metric space on its own and apply the epsilon delta definition).

2) show that there exists a unique extension of f:Q->Q to f:R->R such that f is continuous on R (proving this is fairly easy via contradiction).

3) show that f being non-decreasing on Q and continuous on Q implies it is this candidate function (step 2 isn't entirely necessary, but it should help provide a lot more intuition to make this last leap).

I'm quite drowsy, so if something sounds confusing tell me.
 
I'm sorry, but I'm not familiar with the term "unique extension" what do you mean by that?
 
Robert IL said:
I'm sorry, but I'm not familiar with the term "unique extension" what do you mean by that?

Oh no prob. An extension of a function f:Q->Q to a function g:R->R is g such that for every x in Q, f(x) = g(x).
 

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