Another question on radiation of time varying arbitrary source.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the retarded scalar potential of an arbitrary source in the context of electromagnetic theory, specifically focusing on the relationship between the second and first time derivatives of a source density function and their implications for oscillatory motion. Participants explore mathematical expressions and seek clarification on a specific claim regarding the ratio of these derivatives.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Alan presents a mathematical formulation for the retarded scalar potential and seeks clarification on the claim that the ratio of the second derivative of the source density to the first derivative equals the angular frequency, ω.
  • One participant suggests considering the analogy of a simple harmonic oscillator to understand the relationship between instantaneous velocity and acceleration, implying that the modulus of the ratio is constant.
  • Alan provides a specific example using a cosine function for the source density and calculates the derivatives, concluding that the ratio does not equal ω, which he finds confusing.
  • Alan requests further explanation, indicating a lack of clarity on the matter.
  • A later post expresses a desire for more responses, indicating that the discussion may not have reached a resolution.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not appear to reach consensus on the claim regarding the ratio of derivatives, with Alan expressing confusion and seeking clarification while others provide differing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the behavior of oscillatory functions and the mathematical treatment of derivatives, which may not be fully resolved or universally accepted among participants.

yungman
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For retarded scalar potential of arbigtrary source around origin:

[tex]V(\vec r, t) = \frac 1 {4\pi\epsilon_0}\int \frac { \rho(\vec r\;',t-\frac {\eta}{c}) }{\eta} d\;\tau' \;\hbox { where }\;\eta =\sqrt{r^2 + r'^2 - 2 \vec r \cdot \vec r\;' }[/tex]

Where [itex]\;\vec r \;[/itex] point to the field point where V is measured. And [itex]\;\vec r\;' \;[/itex] points to the source point.
For [itex]\;\vec r\;' \;[/itex] << [itex]\;\vec r \;[/itex]:

[tex]\eta \approx \; r- \hat r \cdot \vec r\;' \Rightarrow \rho(\vec r\;',\;t-\frac {\eta}{c}) \approx \rho (\vec r\;',\;t-\frac {r}{c} + \frac {\vec r \cdot \vec r\;'}{c})[/tex]

Expanding [itex]\rho \;[/itex] as a Taylor series in t about the retarded time at the origin,

[tex]t_0=t-\frac r c[/tex]

We have

[tex]\rho(\vec r\;',\;t-\frac {\eta}{c}) \approx \rho (\vec r\;',\; t_0) + \dot{\rho} (\vec r\;',\; t_0)\left ( \frac {\vec r \cdot \vec r\;'}{c}\right ) + \frac 1 {2!} \ddot{\rho} \left ( \frac {\vec r \cdot \vec r\;'}{c}\right )^2 + \frac 1 {3!} \rho^{...}_{ } \left ( \frac {\vec r \cdot \vec r\;'}{c}\right )^3 ...[/tex]Then the book go on and claim:

[tex]\left | \frac {\ddot{\rho}}{\dot{\rho}}\right|= \omega[/tex]

I have no idea how this come about. please explain this to me.

Thanks

Alan
 
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It makes sense - think about any simple harmonic oscillator and the relationship between instantaneous velocity and acceleration. Draw it - and then calculate it for yourself using ASinwt as the wave function. The sign of w would change, which is why the ratio is expressed as a modulus in your example, but the absolute value is constant.
 
Thanks for your time.

Let [tex]\rho_{(\vec r\;', t-k)} = \rho_0\;cos [\omega(t-k)]\;\Rightarrow \;\dot{\rho}_{(\vec r\;', t-k)} = -\omega \rho_0 sin\; [\omega(t-k)] \;\hbox { and }\; \ddot{\rho}_{(\vec r\;', t-k)} = -\omega^2 \rho_0 cos\; [\omega(t-k)][/tex]

[tex]\left|\frac{ \ddot{\rho}_{(\vec r\;', t-k)} }{\dot{\rho}_{(\vec r\;', t-k)}}\right| \;=\; \left| \frac {-\omega^2 \rho_0 cos\; [\omega(t-k)]}{ -\omega \rho_0 sin\; [\omega(t-k)] }\right| \;=\; |\omega \;tan\;[\omega(t-k)] |[/tex]

You can still see that


[tex]\left|\frac{ \ddot{\rho}_{(\vec r\;', t-k)} }{\dot{\rho}_{(\vec r\;', t-k)}}\right|[/tex]

Not equal to [itex]\omega[/itex]

I still don't get it. Please explain this.

Thanks

Alan
 
Anyone please?
 

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