Anybody disappointed that James Cameron didn't win Oscars

[turbo]

Money does not measure "greatness" in the arts. During Vincent Van Gogh's lifetime, his art was practically worthless. In fact his younger brother (an art dealer) supported him because he couldn't manage to popularized Vincent's paintings and get them sold. Were Vincent's paintings "great"? They certainly didn't appeal to the art patrons of his day, so no, not at the time. Using money to measure "greatness", his paintings are probably the best ever, but we'll never know, because the really popular ones are locked up in collections and will never be "measured" in an art auction.

 

[ideasrule]

Because those younger people will change their minds as they become wiser. They will admit that they were naive.

If you're saying that younger people don't like movies with good storylines because they sometimes don't understand the significance of the storyline, I'd agree with you. However, if they do understand the significance of the storyline but couldn't care less about it ("who cares about that woman's empty-nest syndrome? I'm not 40, and I'm not female!"), I wouldn't say their preference is any less valid than that of an adult. Not everything that's child-like is naive. Young children are very curious, but that doesn't mean curiosity is a bad thing.

 

[DanP]

. Ironically, it is YOU who is stereotyping. Ah, the foolishness of the young. Ignorant bliss. You accuse me of stereotyping, but in the end, your stereotyping was associated with a lot more anger than anything I said earlier.

Ironically, you fall again in the trap. You have no idea about my age , and you risk using phrases like "Ah, the foolishness of the young. Ignorant bliss. "

 

[DanP]

de facto[/I] best movie.

Yes I am. It's my perspective of seeing things. Accept it.

 

[magnusrobot12]

Ironically, you fall again in the trap. You have no idea about my age , and you risk using phrases like "Ah, the foolishness of the young. Ignorant bliss. "

Dan, OK, tell me. what is your age. Be honest now. Come on man, we're all friends here. Dont take things so wrong. How old are you? I'll start. I'm a 40-year old geezer. Your turn...

Seriously, i got to get away from this topic...but it keeps pulling me back in...must leave topic...must leave topic...

 

[DaveC426913]

Yes I am. It's my perspective of seeing things. Accept it.

You misunderstand. You are trying to make your perspective into a larger perspective.

You're waffling between "it is just my opinon that the movie is the best" and "it is de facto that the movie is the best beacuse of...".

You are making a claim ("this movie is best because the box office shows it"), and are providing numbers that back that up. We do grant that numbers lead to a valid conclusion. The onus is on you to show that your numbers (box office) result in your conclusion ("best" movie).

Until then, the only valid opinions you have are that you liked it best.

 

[humanino]

The future stands where the highest grosses are.

That is not true, and that is boring. Do you want me to come up with an example where the public was spending tons of money on stupid fashionable products which have been forgotten ? Can you remind me of the argument you had in favor of awarding an Oscar to a flat and shallow movie but including the sense of smell (or any other technological breakthrough that would please you) ?

 

[DanP]

You misunderstand. You are trying to make your perspective into a larger perspective.

You're waffling between "it is just my opinon that the movie is the best" and "it is de facto that the movie is the best beacuse of...".

You are making a claim ("this movie is best because the box office shows it"), and are providing numbers that back that up. We do grant that numbers lead to a valid conclusion. The onus is on you to show that your numbers (box office) result in your conclusion ("best" movie).

Until then, the only valid opinions you have are that you liked it best.

I see your point. Yes, what I liked the best is the most important pivot point for me.

Please understand that I am not trying to change your mind regarding "The hurt Locker". I find it cool that you think it was the one who deserved Best Motion Picture.

 

[magnusrobot12]

Group hug!

:!)

 

[DaveC426913]

Please understand that I am not trying to change your mind regarding "The hurt Locker". I find it cool that you think it was the one who deserved Best Motion Picture.

I have expressed no opinion about Hurt Locker. I haven't even seen it.

 

[DanP]

Can you remind me of the argument you had in favor of awarding an Oscar to a flat and shallow movie but including the sense of smell (or any other technological breakthrough that would please you) ?

Im talking about future the industry, not Oscars. Industry wants money. If smell will bring money, they'll give you smell.

 

[DanP]

Dan, OK, tell me. what is your age.

Im 36.

Be honest now. Come on man, we're all friends here.

Hinting at honesty ... maybe a form of prejudice ?

"Ah, the foolishness of the young. Ignorant bliss."

I really do hope that my generation is capable of more respect towards the young generation.

 

[humanino]

Im talking about future the industry, not Oscars.

Well, I'm sorry I did not understand, I thought we were talking about Oscars.

 

[MotoH]

In my short time being here, I do not think I have seen one thread get past 2 pages with peaceful conversation!

Avatar = Halo 3 and Cats the musical

The Hurt Locker = Rambo in an EOD squad

 

[magnusrobot12]

Im still very young.

You and i are the same age then. i too am "still very young". I'm 40 and you are apparently 36. Dont believe you but that is OK. Take care.

 

[magnusrobot12]

In my short time being here, I do not think I have seen one thread get past 2 pages with peaceful conversation!

Its been only 12 hours since the topic began and we are already on page 5.

 

[DanP]

. Dont believe you but that is OK. Take care.

Are you calling me a liar ? Do you want to rephrase it, perhaps ?

 

[magnusrobot12]

Are you calling me a liar ? Do you want to rephrase it, perhaps ?

I'm sorry Dan, but i don't believe you.

Wow, my post count is getting larger. I'll be at 1000 in no-time thanks to Dan.

 

[DaveC426913]

My goodness, I thought this forum was build on logic, but in fact, its only built only on logic that people want to hear.

You should not make this kind of statement. It does not reflect well on you.

 

[DaveC426913]

I do not see any claim that DanP has made about his age that could be concluded to be false.

Other than "I am still very young", I see no comment from him at all, and that comment cannot be falsified.

 

[magnusrobot12]

You should not make this kind of statement. It does not reflect well on you.

I was only making the point that DanP was ignoring logic when it was hurting his argument. I did not mean to make a generalization of the forum as a whole. I apologize for my carelessness. Thank you Dave for bringing this to my attention. Magnus

 

[magnusrobot12]

I do not see any claim that DanP has made about his age that could be concluded to be false.

Other than "I am still very young", I see no comment from him at all, and that comment cannot be falsified.

Yes, you are correct. I have no evidence that he is not 36. Just picking on him right now. You are correct again Dave. Thank you, Magnus

 

[DanP]

I'm sorry Dan, but i don't believe you.

Yes, understandable for certain psychological profiles. It doesn't make any difference in fact if you believe me or not, the take home message for you is that you should respect more the younger generation.

 

[DanP]

Just picking on him right now.

Wise beyond your age.

 

[magnusrobot12]

Yes, understandable for certain psychological profiles. It doesn't make any difference in fact if you believe me or not, the take home message for you is that you should respect more the younger generation.

I have a young child and i will do everything in my power to love him, cherish him, respect him. I have nothing against young people at all. In the contrary, i love young people. I was a high school teacher for 2 years before going back to graduate school. There is no doubt that i respect young people.

 

[Lisa!]

I'm sorry Dan, but i don't believe you.

Wow, my post count is getting larger. I'll be at 1000 in no-time thanks to Dan.

Posts in GD doesn't count

 

[magnusrobot12]

Posts in GD doesn't count

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/1865/charliebrownargh.jpg

 

[Janus]

The academy awards where actors pat each other on the back for acting is hilarious at its best

No, that's the SAG awards.

 

[arildno]

Avatar was a fairly dull movie, its special effects were, for example, less to boast about than, say, Lord of the Rings.

As for the storyline, it never was anywhere near, say, the Star Wars movies, LOTR, or, for that matter, Titanic.

All in all, a piece of forgettable glitz.

 

[MotoH]

Oh and btw, Inglorious Bastards and District 9 were ten times better than Avatar and THL. QT gets jiped again.

 

[ideasrule]

After further reflection, I have to wonder whether young people had significantly different opinions about the movie than old people. In the thread "Watched Avatar yet?" almost everybody, from teenagers to sixty-year-olds, expressed the same opinion: good special effects, bad plot. All of the back-and-forth arguing is over the relative significance of the two.

 

[zomgwtf]

Holy earlier when I woke up this thread was only at 2 pages long, actually it was just barely 2 pages with Chi's post. Come back on and there are 5 pages now. Most of it useless bickering, meh.

Anyways I think that Avatar did not deserve best movie Oscar it was actually pretty boring, it was rediculously long I thought and everything was predictable.
To argue that the film was the best because it made xxx amount of money isn't really the greatest comparison to make between movies. For instance 1 ticket to Avatar cost about twice as much as a regular movie ticket. I think that Avatar was also marketed better than Hurt Locker and Avatar attracted an audience that would go see the movie 3-4 times in theatres, each time spending twice the amount of a regular ticket to see it in I-MAX.
This is also beside the fact that a financially successful movie doesn't necessarily equate with best movie. Financial success has to do more with the audience being targeted and the marketing done for the movie. There was never a doubt in my mind that Harry Potter movies would earn a LOT of money. Having read the books and been a fan of the books it was clear to me that whoever picked up the opportunity to make the movies was going to earn a killing. The movies weren't however ALL that great, same for Dark Knight... I thought it was a pretty stupid movie overall.
In my opinion one of the best movies ever was Shawshank Redemption, did that movie do well in the box office? Not particularly. On the other hand I really like the original Jurassic Park movie, and it did very well financially. So my conclusion to all this is that financial success doesn't automatically equate with best movie success. In some cases it may be an indicator but it's far from the determining factor.

@magnus, I don't see why you are making stereotypical comments towards young people. I would consider myself to be a young person, at 21, and I would have to disagree with you about 'young' people being attracted to all the special effects. The majority of my friends have never really liked those types of movies and when we discuss which movies are our all time favorites none really come up that were 'special effects' monsters. (even out of our childhood) I also really doubt that you are 40 years old, the manner of your posts and just the way you present your ideas makes it seem to me that your probably much younger.

 

[zomgwtf]

Oh and btw, Inglorious Bastards and District 9 were ten times better than Avatar and THL. QT gets jiped again.

Although I really didn't like either movie I'd have to agree that they were better than Avatar. Inglorious Bastards wasn't that great but it was probably because of the expectations I went in with. District 9 was a good movie as well but towards the end I was starting to get bored of watching it and I definitely wouldn't watch it again.

 

[DanP]

Anyone else here liked "Up in the Air" ?

 

[cronxeh]

What is "out of proportion"? Does the universe have a fundamental physical constant that represents the correct proportion?

Yeah.. its (1+sqrt(5))/2

 

[Janus]

Ok, let me put it this way. Oscars are nice and funny, and it's great to have an award or a nomination.

But in the end the real value of a production is seen on the streets, at the box office.
Ppl speak there.

What did The Hurt Locker grossed ? 21 Million worldwide ? Now compare that with the 2,55 Milliards Avatar grossed worldwide to date.

Frankly, when you run those numbers, you realize that an Oscar for The Hurt Locker was pretty much a consolation prize. The reality is simple. Avatar was the best movie of 2009.
Numbers speaks. A 100 factor in grosses.

In 2009 I believe the best story was the one in "Up In the Air". But this doesn't make it the best movie of 2009. Avatar is.

If you want an award for "most popular film", you need to look to the People's Choice Awards. The Academy Awards simply use a different criteria. They have that right, it is their award.

It seems a bit silly to complain that an award show gave an award out on the basis of its own criteria.



If however,

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Responding to Janus: I find that popularity is often [usually] inversely proportional to quality.

 

[Dembadon]

Responding to Janus: I find that popularity is often [usually] inversely proportional to quality.

It's a shame how many blank stares I've received after mentioning Primer to video store clerks. Talk about an excellent movie which has absolutely zero special effects.

 

[waht]

Magnus how does being 40 make you old? It's a very young age. Wait until get 50, then reflect how wise you were in your 40s, and then when you get 60, reflect how wise you were in your 50s, and so on, until you get to 100.

As far as me, well I'm 25. And I'm perfectly content to say I'm the least wisest person in the world.

As a member of the younger generation I do however have some movie preferences. I crave movies like Nietzsche Wept, Man from Earth, 2001 Space Odyssey, Primer, Pianist, District 9 etc... and anything that has the deep philosophical implications. And I tend to stay away from many popular mainstream flicks.

So why do I praise Cameron? Well, for being bold and doing something no one has done before. Avatar is unique. Most directors settle for less. Most directors make quick and cheap flicks with existing techniques. But Cameron wanted more. He demanded technology that wasn't previously available, and one that will be a bench mark for movies in the next decade.

He thinks in terms of the future, and not the past. That's why I'd give him the Oscars. Especially considering how short the list was to choose from.

As far the plot? I don't care. I think "Man from Earth" a $200,000 budget movie shot in the living room for an hour and a half has a better plot. But the quality of craftsmanship of Avatar surpasses anything that was done before.

 

[magnusrobot12]

But then again, let us not forget the painfully slow English Patient that won an Oscar a few years back. A movie like that would have benefited from a little George Lucas technology.

 

[magnusrobot12]

Magnus how does being 40 make you old? It's a very young age. Wait until get 50, then reflect how wise you were in your 40s, and then when you get 60, reflect how wise you were in your 50s, and so on, until you get to 80.

As far as me, well I'm 25. And I'm perfectly content to say I'm the least wisest person in the world.

I never said 40 makes a person old. I am young at heart. Apparently too young at heart...

 

[waht]

I never said 40 makes a person old. I am young at heart. Apparently too young at heart...

Oh ok. That's an excellent attitude.

 

[Janus]

Responding to Janus: I find that popularity is often [usually] inversely proportional to quality.

Case in point: The last People's Choice Award for favorite film was given to "Twilight".

 

[Chi Meson]

So, here goes list of the 10 best movies of all times:

1. Avatar (2009) $2,564,189,342
2. Titanic (1997) $1,835,300,000
3. The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King (2003) $1,129,219,252
4. Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest (2006) $1,060,332,628
5. The Dark Knight (2008) $1,001,921,825
6. Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone (2001) $968,657,891
7. Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End (2007) $958,404,152
8. Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix (2007) $937,000,866
9. Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince (2009) $933,956,980
10. Star Wars: Episode I - The Phantom Menace $922,379,000

Somehow I don't feel convinced these are really the best movies ever.

I got to add:

QED

These are so very much NOT the best movies ever made. I really don't think even one of them qualifies for one of the 10-best slots.

That being said, I don't understand why some people are tripping over themselves to denigrate the movie. I'm not sure if, at 45, I qualify as "older," but I really appreciated the movie, and I found it worthwhile to see a second time in 3-D. I think that the praise it has been awarded is justified. Few serious critics thought it really was worth "best picture," and I really don't think anyone was truly surprised that it didn't win as such. As I said before, it won all three of the awards it deserved.

Just thinking about it, I want to see the floaty mountain scenes again in huge-screen 3-D.

Say, has anyone seen it dubbed in another language? Maybe that would make it better.

 

[cronxeh]

My personal take would be..

Sci-Fi category:
The Thirteenth Floor > The Matrix

Action category:
Star Trek (2009) > Hurt Locker

Comedy:
Boondocks > Up

National Geographic category:
Avatar > Precious

 

[turbo]

I got to add:

QED

These are so very much NOT the best movies ever made. I really don't think even one of them qualifies for one of the 10-best slots.

Really! I haven't seen Avatar (not until it's out in DVD) but none of the others is "better" than "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest", "Shawshank Redemption", "Charly", and a huge laundry-list of others that I could dredge up if I was so-motivated. Like I said in an earlier post, if we could measure the quality of art in dollars, Van Gogh's paintings were crap when he painted them, and priceless today. Apart from the Mona Lisa, I can't think of a single painting that would bring more money at auction than Vincent's most popular works.

 

[Brian_C]

There is no Oscar for "hard work".

 

[BobG]

I got to add:

QED

These are so very much NOT the best movies ever made. I really don't think even one of them qualifies for one of the 10-best slots.

That being said, I don't understand why some people are tripping over themselves to denigrate the movie. I'm not sure if, at 45, I qualify as "older," but I really appreciated the movie, and I found it worthwhile to see a second time in 3-D. I think that the praise it has been awarded is justified. Few serious critics thought it really was worth "best picture," and I really don't think anyone was truly surprised that it didn't win as such. As I said before, it won all three of the awards it deserved.

Just thinking about it, I want to see the floaty mountain scenes again in huge-screen 3-D.

Say, has anyone seen it dubbed in another language? Maybe that would make it better.

How often is the Oscar winner the best movie of that year?

Is Ben-Hur as impressive 40 years after it was made as The Diary of Anne Frank?

Is Lawrence of Arabia better than both Mutiny on the Bounty and To Kill a Mockingbird? (To Kill a Mockingbird is my personal favorite, or at least in the top 5) (at least Lawrence of Arabia doesn't look dumber with time - there's just no way it's had the impact of the other two).

Is The French Connection better than both Fiddler on the Roof and Nicholas and Alexandra? (okay, I admit there probably aren't very many that share my high opinion of Nicholas and Alexandra, but I really like that movie)

A movie needs to be capable of holding its significance for decades to rank among the best ever.

In any event, while I liked both Precious and Hurt Locker, I agree the field didn't compare to 1992. I don't think either will wind up very high on a best movie ever list (but at least Precious might have more staying power than Hurt Locker.

Was Unforgiven (a great movie, by the way) really better than Scent of a Woman, My Cousin Vinny, and A Few Good Men? I'd rank it only ahead of A Few Good Men, but I also know there's a lot of people that would rank A Few Good Men as the best movie of 1992.

Or '94, when Shawshank Redemption and Pulp Fiction lost out to Forrest Gump (a good movie, but the other two are classics)?

I'd put Avatar in the same category as Ben-Hur. It's a great movie today, but will it still be a great movie 20 years from now when people aren't amazed by the 3-D effects anymore?

 

[Evo]

Oscars aren't given out for reasons you'd think.

When people are recruited to do a movie, part of their contract, if it is slated to be an important movie, is a guarantee of an Oscar nomination. This is part of their job offer before the movie even starts filming.

Now a guarantee of a nomination is not a guarantee of a win, but it's a guarantee that your name is in the running.

The awards are very "political" among the people that can vote.

And yes, I do know this first hand from a dear friend that has won 3 Academy Awards.

 

[turbo]

Oscars aren't given out for reasons you'd think.

When people are recruited to do a movie, part of their contract, if it is slated to be an important movie, is a guarantee of an Oscar nomination. This is part of their job offer before the movie even starts filming.

In an industry that doles out countless millions of dollars on speculation, it is not at all surprising the the Oscars are political, leveraged, and profit-driven. Should we expect less? I am quite gratified that a small-grossing indie film garnered a Best Director award for Bigelow. She is a classy woman, and when baited, she didn't crow over besting Cameron (ex-husband). I hope Linda Hamilton (another Cameron ex-wife) and Bigelow get together for a nice BBQ and drinks to celebrate.