Anyone watching Game of Thrones? (spoilers)

[Dr Wu]

I've never knowingly watched Game of Thrones, so I can't possibly comment in any direct way about its treatment of women. All I can say on a general level is that authenticity to a given period's norms and values is one thing: their celebration - or at least a casual indifference towards them - could very well be something else again. A thought experiment: substitute the abuse of women in GOTh for what the Nazis perpetuated against the Jews and see if this distinction still holds (Oh, all right, if one wishes to remain true to to the series' mediaeval setting, apply this substitution to what Genghis Khan and His Golden Horde did to other Eurasians of whatever ethnicity, age and gender). Or am I being slightly OTT here? That's also possible, of course.

 

[Battlemage!]

I've never knowingly watched Game of Thrones, so I can't possibly comment in any direct way about its treatment of women. All I can say on a general level is that authenticity to a given period's norms and values is one thing: their celebration - or at least a casual indifference towards them - could very well be something else again. A thought experiment: substitute the abuse of women in GOTh for what the Nazis perpetuated against the Jews and see if this distinction still holds (Oh, all right, if one wishes to remain true to to the series' mediaeval setting, apply this substitution to what Genghis Khan and His Golden Horde did to other Eurasians of whatever ethnicity, age and gender). Or am I being slightly OTT here? That's also possible, of course.

What would you say of an implied rape that isn't actually shown on screen? I would say they were not celebrating the violence at all if they were to do this, but rather including it because the world the plot is set in requires such brutality.

Would you agree with that or not? If so why or why not?

The reason I ask is because that is exactly what happened with the massively controversial rape scene of last year. They didn't even show it. They panned to the other torture victim who was forced by the psychopath to watch, completely avoiding filming the actual rape (the event in the books goes into extreme disturbing detail, including the use of animals- none of which is shown in the show). I am convinced they did it for two reasons: (1) the book actually has the character Theon being forced to watch his childhood friend endure it (although they replaced the victim with a main character), and (2) they did NOT want to make the scene any worse than it had to be in order to remain faithful to both the world the plot is set in and the story originally written (with the obvious replacement of a minor character with a major one).

It seems to me that this most controversial scene (the one that had many people "swearing off" the show) was consciously filmed in the least "celebratory" way. They appeared to go out of their way to NOT show it without removing the event from the plot.

 

[Dr Wu]

Well, of course, all other things being equal, any representation of a violent act does not have to depend on whether it's depicted visually or implied by some sleight-of-hand way. Both can be equally suggestive. The grisly blinding of Gloucester in 'King Lear', a scene enacted live on stage ("Out, vile jelly!") is certainly one I shall never forget. Sometimes, though, the mind - that is to say the human imagination - can more than compensate for what the eye is not permitted to see. For this reason I find many novels (e.g. 'The Lord of The Rings') far more visually stimulating than their movie versions.

Even so, battlemage!, I take your larger point with regards to Game of Thrones. The 'noises off' mode of presentation as it is applies to this particular rape scene would seem to deny a celebratory enjoyment of violence for its own sake, while at the same time retaining its full horror. Yet even this can play both ways. Kubrick's masterstroke in implicating the viewer with his deft camera positioning during the gangbang rape scene in 'A Clockwork Orange' is a case in point. You see the violence (if glancingly) and you are part of the violence, albeit unwittingly, and for me at least, it's about as uncelebratory an act of violence to be had this side of Tarantino, or dare I suggest Shakespeare? I guess I'll just have to go and watch GOTh myself before spouting off any further about a TV series I've never seen before.

 

[Battlemage!]

Well, of course, all other things being equal, any representation of a violent act does not have to depend on whether it's depicted visually or implied by some sleight-of-hand way. Both can be equally suggestive. The grisly blinding of Gloucester in 'King Lear', a scene enacted live on stage ("Out, vile jelly!") is certainly one I shall never forget. Sometimes, though, the mind - that is to say the human imagination - can more than compensate for what the eye is not permitted to see. For this reason I find many novels (e.g. 'The Lord of The Rings') far more visually stimulating than their movie versions.

Even so, battlemage!, I take your larger point with regards to Game of Thrones. The 'noises off' mode of presentation as it is applies to this particular rape scene would seem to deny a celebratory enjoyment of violence for its own sake, while at the same time retaining its full horror. Yet even this can play both ways. Kubrick's masterstroke in implicating the viewer with his deft camera positioning during the gangbang rape scene in 'A Clockwork Orange' is a case in point. You see the violence (if glancingly) and you are part of the violence, albeit unwittingly, and for me at least, it's about as uncelebratory an act of violence to be had this side of Tarantino, or dare I suggest Shakespeare? I guess I'll just have to go and watch GOTh myself before spouting off any further about a TV series I've never seen before.

Well there is certainly gratuitous violence, horror and sex, so if you do come with a strong stomach.

 

[russ_watters]

Since I wouldn't know Ed Sheeran if I tripped over him, all I kept thinking last night was "Why isn't Arya killing those wussy Lannister soldiers?"

Good start, rest of it slow, way too much poop.

 

[guigabyte]

Hahah nice Arya scene in the beginning though [emoji1]

 

[Dan8420]

Anyone have thoughts on the time-frame it took them to build 1,000 ships at the Iron Islands? Seems a huge plot hole there for me.

 

[russ_watters]

Anyone have thoughts on the time-frame it took them to build 1,000 ships at the Iron Islands? Seems a huge plot hole there for me.

Yes, and the show is getting [in]famous for that. For how much longer are the white walkers going to be walking south until they get to the wall? Didn't take a cripple on a sledge long to get there!

 

[Dan8420]

Yes, and the show is getting [in]famous for that.

Seems the way the whole show is going to have to operate over the next two compressed seasons. Sad tho, a lot of these time line related mistakes could have been easily avoided.

 

[Anon5000]

I just finished season 1! I'm a huge fan now!

I did but only out of a lack of anything else. Dark ages, with bad weather, ugly armour, ugly weapons, and mostly basic human cruelty? The show's nihilistic and not fun. There might be a place for this kind of story, but only a place. LOTR is a form of Classic Art that emphasizes beauty. GOT...not so much. Just depression.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

Season 7 felt short because it was, but overall pretty good. The plot sure has sped up. Good ending to season 7. Stinks we have to wait 2 years for the final season. Hope it's worth it!

 

[Borg]

I had never seen Game of Thrones before this year. We changed our cable provider and got free HBO for a year. I decided to see what all the fuss was about and really enjoyed binge watching all of the seasons over the course of a month. I guess that I'll have to pay for HBO at the end of the final season so that I can see the last of it.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

I just finished my second run through the first 7 seasons. I am obsessed with this show. I am so excited for tonight's premiere of the last season. I think it's going to be insane and slightly sad that I bet a few big characters will die. Also sad this is the last season. Anyone else looking forward to tonight?

 

[Borg]

I had HBO two years ago on the previous season and binged all 7 seasons. I don't have HBO anymore but I've been considering it just for these last 6 episodes. Maybe in a couple of weeks.
Edit: I thought this was a new thread but I just saw my previous post.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

I thought the premiere was okay. Really just a big setup and reunion piece. Hoping next episode gets more action.

 

[BWV]

Does anyone believe we will ever see another book in the series, and if Winds of Winter ever does come out, will you read it? I gave up on GRRM a few years back and turned to GOT to see this story play out. I do not think George is capable of finishing the series.

Good setup for new conflicts and wrapped up old ones.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

If he lives another ten years I think they will. There has been a little news about "The Winds of Winter" and "A Dream of Spring" lately. I would read them because I bet there is so much more information than the TV series.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

WOW! S8 E3 was amazing! One of the best episodes of any fantasy franchise or movie. Well done HBO!

 

[BillTre]

Today I Learned:

 

[Borg]

Actually, it wouldn't surprise me if Tyrion ends up on the throne because everyone else dies.

BTW, anyone else care to guess who comes out on top?

 

[pinball1970]

I just finished season 1! I'm a huge fan now!

Everyone is going on about it at work.
Everyone said I should like it because I am a huge Lord of the Rings fan but most are not aware I really hated the films when they came out.
Sean Bean was good as Boromir but a lot of it was rubbish.
Sean Bean is in Game of Thrones yes?

 

[pinball1970]

Today I Learned:
View attachment 242835

You are supposed to put spoilers with that Bill

 

[Borg]

Ooh, Winterfell has a Starbucks.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/06/ente...es-starbucks-coffee-cup-scene-trnd/index.html

 

[BWV]

Does anyone want to opine on the difficult physics involved in hitting a flying dragon with a ballista mounted on a rolling ship?

Writing is getting sloppier the further the series goes from GRRM's books

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

Does anyone want to opine on the difficult physics involved in hitting a flying dragon with a ballista mounted on a rolling ship?

There were a ton of ballista's though. They were going for spread.

 

[BillTre]

Yeah, that seems difficult.

When I was in grad school, I had some friends in econometrics. As first year students they had lots of math problems to do.
One they thought was particularly difficult was to determine the statistical spread of shots from a ship that was rolling, pitching, surging, etc. while shooting at a distant target.

I thought Daenerys should have attacked the ships with dragon at night.
Ships can't aim in the dark.
Anchored ships are sitting targets.

 

[BWV]

Yes or just attacked them from above or behind.

 

[BWV]

Agree with the points here:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikka...0T0U8951itgSKMw0kEN8Fg38FTLuUHVQ#349362294b42

 

[Borg]

Ooh, Winterfell has a Starbucks.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/06/ente...es-starbucks-coffee-cup-scene-trnd/index.html

Aw. I won't get to see it. According to the news last night, they've edited it out.

 

[essenmein]

Heh, I liked daneirous (sp? lol) getting a bit of reality. Roll up all cocky thinking you got this, then bam, AA fire. I mean did she honestly think the other guys weren't actively trying to come up with a way to defeat your super weapon?

Re accuracy, only a few arrows hit, vs the amount fired. What I found off was the impact energy of said arrows when tyrion was trying to get off the boat, some would smash nearly half the ship off, others gently embedded in wood.

The tactical/strategic stupidity is what got me though.

Why did cersei not just finish them all off when they were sitting there? At the very least get rid of the last dragon?

How is it you plan an invasion and don't send advance scouts, who might have warned of said AA installations?

Those balistas surely have a maximum engagement height? re configure your dragons to be bombers? Stay high out of range and even just drop rocks. This was an irritation from when the first dragon went down with the ice spear.

If you had scouts, that might have made you bring the siege weapons you had shown just last episode against the zombies, those catapults are indirect fire, vs the balista which is more a direct fire weapon, ie the nature of artillery means it can be behind something that would protect it from the balistas.

 

[essenmein]

Anchored ships are sitting targets.

Square rigged ships in general are basically sitting targets compared to modern naval vessels, they are basically stuck running down wind or maybe at best can get to beam reach.

 

[Borg]

Still possible so far.

Spoiler: Prediction

Actually, it wouldn't surprise me if Tyrion ends up on the throne because everyone else dies.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

I added "spoilers" to the thread title so we can talk plainly. They are certainly setting up for Dany vs Jon/Arya confrontation in the end. I think if Jon does survive he's beyond accepting the throne. Some say Arya will, but she is not a ruler and more a lone wolf. It does appear more and more that Tyrion is best suited.

 

[BWV]

After he (re)marries Sansa

 

[BWV]

 

[essenmein]

That explains a lot.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

What's everyone take on the last episode and last season? I felt it was all very rushed and just about tying ends up. Very few real surprises. I thought the battle of winterfell was excellent and the rest very meh.

 

[russ_watters]

I added "spoilers" to the thread title so we can talk plainly. They are certainly setting up for Dany vs Jon/Arya confrontation in the end. I think if Jon does survive he's beyond accepting the throne. Some say Arya will, but she is not a ruler and more a lone wolf. It does appear more and more that Tyrion is best suited.

Well, I have to give you props for that prediction; it's spot on about the direction and the uncertainty it left regarding who would be on the throne. The choice...

What's everyone take on the last episode and last season? I felt it was all very rushed and just about tying ends up. Very few real surprises. I thought the battle of winterfell was excellent and the rest very meh.

IMO, the entire season was rushed due to the decision for it to be only 6 episodes. A lot of fans and reviewers gave it bad marks mostly based on that reason. Setting that aside, I liked it for the most part. Sure it went where you expected (both the season and last episode), but I'm not sure it could have gone any other way, except of course for who got the throne -- that was out of left field and makes no sense.

I read a lot of criticisms about predictability, but here's the problem I see with that: you can only kill Ned Stark once. After that, everyone knows the gloves are off and even deaths/actions that aren't predicted aren't surprising anymore.

It also doesn't mean characters don't follow their personality. With Ned Stark's death, we all knew Joffrey was a sadistic bastard, we just didn't know where the line was (nonexistent). If that scene had happened in any other season, nobody would have been the least bit surprised that Joffrey had him killed.

BTW, you didn't happen to do a Death Pool before the season, did you? I did. For the most part, I over-estimated the number of deaths, but my big misses were predicting Bran to die and Dany to live.

 

[BWV]

The ending with Danerys going full Hitler was good, but they did not build enough of an arc for the character

 

[essenmein]

As a dog owner, the thing that tugged at me was the dragon flying off with his dead owner/keeper. Poor Drogon :(