Applying D'Alembert's principle to a bead on an elliptical hoop

Click For Summary
SUMMARY

This discussion focuses on the application of D'Alembert's principle to analyze a bead on an elliptical hoop, specifically addressing the computation of virtual work done by weight and elastic forces. The participants highlight the importance of correctly defining the distance from the point of attachment of the spring, which is located at a focus of the ellipse, and clarify the role of the angle theta in relation to the center of the ellipse. The conversation emphasizes the need for accurate notation and diagram representation to avoid confusion in the analysis of radial and transversal components.

PREREQUISITES
  • D'Alembert's principle in classical mechanics
  • Understanding of virtual work and holonomic constraints
  • Trigonometric relationships in elliptical geometry
  • Vector notation and operations in physics
NEXT STEPS
  • Review the application of D'Alembert's principle in constrained systems
  • Study the derivation of virtual work in elastic systems
  • Explore the geometry of ellipses and its implications in physics
  • Learn about vector calculus and its application in mechanics
USEFUL FOR

Students and professionals in physics, particularly those studying classical mechanics, as well as engineers and mathematicians interested in the dynamics of constrained systems.

Like Tony Stark
Messages
182
Reaction score
6
Homework Statement
A bead of mass ##m## is placed on a vertically oriented elliptical hoop. The mass is attached to a spring of constant ##k## with its end in one of the foci. Find the equations of motion using D'Alembert's principle.
Relevant Equations
D'Alembert's principle
##F_E=-kd##, ##d##: distance between mass and end of the spring
Hi
I've written D'Alembert's principle as you can see in the attached files. I computed the virtual work done by the weight and the elastic force (since the work done by the normal force is zero) and then I used the fundamental hypothesis, which states that the constraint forces can be written as the gradient of the holonomic constraints and the virtual work is zero.
The equation gets ugly, so I want to know if it's okay.
 

Attachments

  • Physics forum 2.png
    Physics forum 2.png
    2.3 KB · Views: 184
  • Physics forum 1.png
    Physics forum 1.png
    8.3 KB · Views: 184
Physics news on Phys.org
I don't understand how you get terms like ##kd\sin(\theta)##.
The spring is attached to a focus, not to the centre of the ellipse.
 
haruspex said:
I don't understand how you get terms like ##kd\sin(\theta)##.
The spring is attached to a focus, not to the centre of the ellipse.
Maybe I made a mistake, but I think it's possible to write its radial and transversal components using trigonometry
 
Like Tony Stark said:
Maybe I made a mistake, but I think it's possible to write its radial and transversal components using trigonometry
Your working suggests you are defining d as the distance from the point of attachment, i.e. a focus. The magnitude of the force is therefore kd. But the diagram shows theta as the angle around the centre of the ellipse, not the angle the string subtends to the x axis.

It might clarify matters if you were to include the string in the diagram.
 
haruspex said:
Your working suggests you are defining d as the distance from the point of attachment, i.e. a focus. The magnitude of the force is therefore kd. But the diagram shows theta as the angle around the centre of the ellipse, not the angle the string subtends to the x axis.

It might clarify matters if you were to include the string in the diagram.
Ok
But apart from the elastic force, is the solution ok?
 
Like Tony Stark said:
Ok
But apart from the elastic force, is the solution ok?
I'm struggling with your notation. You seem to use ";" both for dot products and for separating elements of a vector.
Having to guess how you will correct the error I indicated above adds further uncertainty.
The ##\vec{\delta r}## vector should be tangential to the hoop, no? I don't understand how you dealt with that. It imposes a relationship between ##\delta r## and ##\delta\theta##.
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

  • · Replies 25 ·
Replies
25
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
3K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
1K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 0 ·
Replies
0
Views
2K