Applying math to real world problems

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of mathematical concepts to real-world problems, specifically focusing on measuring the dynamics of a spinning penny. Participants explore how to conduct experiments without modern technology, referencing historical figures like Newton and discussing the theoretical underpinnings of mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses a desire to measure the angle change and spin rate of a penny without technological assistance, invoking Newton's historical context.
  • Another participant mentions that the problem resembles those found in mechanics textbooks, specifically referencing Euler's disk.
  • Concerns are raised about the accuracy of calculations without a calculator, with some arguing that math is manageable but physics is not.
  • A participant shares their experience of completing university math courses primarily without calculators, suggesting that initial measurements are more critical than calculations.
  • Discussion includes a challenge to demonstrate calculations for the spinning penny experiment, inviting participants to engage practically.
  • Some participants question the feasibility of inventing equations to predict planetary orbits without direct measurement tools, emphasizing the role of observational astronomy and geometry.
  • There is a suggestion that understanding calculus and substitution can allow for the derivation of kinematic equations without calculators.
  • Another participant reflects on the historical context of Newton's work, acknowledging his genius despite the lack of modern tools.
  • One participant shares a link to a detailed calculation related to the topic, indicating a higher-level approach than typical textbook problems.
  • Questions arise about the reproducibility of results when measuring the angle change of the penny, with acknowledgment of potential experimental error.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a mix of agreement and disagreement regarding the necessity of calculators for physics calculations, the feasibility of conducting experiments without technology, and the historical context of mathematical discoveries. The discussion remains unresolved on several points, particularly concerning the practicality of measuring and calculating physical phenomena without modern tools.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations in their discussions, such as the need for precise definitions, the potential for experimental error, and the complexity of the mathematical equations referenced. There is also mention of missing assumptions in earlier claims about the feasibility of calculations without technology.

  • #31
uperkurk said:
:( the worst thing about talking to people about a topic you have no clue about is you have no idea when you're being trolled :(

We will let you know when we start trolling you.

As to your spinning penny, I have no interest in solving the problem, as I see little "real world" use of the answer. (How long will it take a 300 kg generator to spin down with a coefficient of friction x, radius y, length z, once motive power is removed with no load? My answer: Who cares)

You might go to the physics or homework section and request guidance on how to solve the problem. Off the top of my head, you will need to know the following:

Mass of the penny
Initial angular velocity
(Some basic knowledge of Rotational Dynamics: Halliday & Resnick, 2nd Edition, Revised Printing, 1986, page 198)

From here you would measure the amount of time it takes for the penny to stop spinning.
This would yield, mathematically, a deceleration rate.
From that, I believe you could determine the coefficient of kinetic friction between the penny and your surface.

Then, with some mathematical knowledge of physics, you could extrapolate an equation which relates time, angular velocity, mass, etc.

Actually, I wouldn't solve the problem for you even if I found it to be a useful bit of knowledge. It's not allowed here.
 
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  • #32
OmCheeto said:
As to your spinning penny, I have no interest in solving the problem, as I see little "real world" use of the answer.

Obviously, you should have picked a more interesting problem, such as:

If you spin a class ring, why does it almost always to seem wind up spinning with the jewel part on top?

(And there is an obvious answer why the jewel part has to wind up either directly on top or directly on the bottom, but only a slightly satisfying answer why it has to wind up on top.)
 

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