Applying variational principles to that metric describes a black hole

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of variational principles to a metric that describes a black hole, specifically the Schwarzschild metric. Participants explore the implications of this metric and its relation to other theoretical constructs, including those proposed by Miguel Alcubierre.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the Schwarzschild metric and questions the claim that variational principles can be applied to it, seeking clarification on its implications.
  • Another participant notes a similarity between the Schwarzschild metric and Alcubierre's equation, suggesting a potential connection worth exploring.
  • A different participant asserts that the Schwarzschild metric is well-known and describes a black hole, while also suggesting that it can represent a vacuum region outside a non-singular massive body that is not a black hole.
  • There is a correction regarding notation in Alcubierre's equation, indicating a misunderstanding in the representation of variables.
  • One participant expresses confusion about a comment made by another, indicating a need for clarification on terminology used in the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the application of variational principles to the Schwarzschild metric and its implications. While some agree on the metric's description of a black hole, others point out its broader applicability, leading to unresolved discussions.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the assumptions made about the Schwarzschild metric and its interpretations, as well as the potential implications of applying variational principles, which remain unresolved.

physx_420
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ds^{2} = -c^{2}(1 - \frac{2Gm}{c^{2}r})dt^{2} + (1 - \frac{2Gm}{c^{2}r})^{-1} dr^{2} + r^{2}d\Omega^{2}

This equation was posted on a different website and the O.P said:"Applying variational principles to that metric describes a black hole!"

I was wondering if anyone could explain it a little better. Also, to anyone knows who Miguel Alcubierre is (the guy that created an equation for a hypothetical warp-drive); the above equation shows some similarities to his:

ds^{2} = -dt^{2} + (dx - v_{s}f(r_{s}dt)^{2} + dy^{2} + dz^{2}

Does this have any implications, be they big or small? Anyone have any inputs on this?
 
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in M. Alcubierre's equation the "s" in the superscript of "v and r" are supposed to be subscripts, I just couldn't get them to work. btw
 
physx_420 said:
This equation was posted on a different website and the O.P said:"Applying variational principles to that metric describes a black hole!"

Unless I'm missing something, you can cut the part about "Applying variational principles to..." The correct statement would simply be: "[T]hat metric describes a black hole!" This is simply the standard form of the Schwarzschild metric, as far as I can see.
 
The first metric you show is the Scwarzschild exterior of a radially symmetric source with a singularty at r=0 and a horizon at r=2GM/c^2.

Look up 'Scwarzschild metric' on Wiki.

[Ben - snap]
 
bcrowell said:
Unless I'm missing something, you can cut the part about "Applying variational principles to..." The correct statement would simply be: "[T]hat metric describes a black hole!" This is simply the standard form of the Schwarzschild metric, as far as I can see.

I think we should acknowledge that the standard Schwarzschild metric can also represent the vacuum region outside a regular non-rotating uncharged non-singular massive body that is not a black hole.
 
Good point, kev.

Lut, what does "[Ben - snap]" mean?
 

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