Are Bose Eistein Condensates Classical Objects

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the nature of Bose-Einstein condensates (BECs) and whether they can be considered classical objects. Participants explore the implications of quantum effects at the macro level, particularly in relation to the indistinguishability of particles and the statistical mechanics governing BECs.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that BECs exhibit quantum effects at the macro level, where atoms lose their individuality and behave as a single quantum system.
  • Others argue that the observation of BECs is indirect and that direct experimental evidence of quantum behavior at the classical scale is necessary to substantiate claims about their nature.
  • One participant questions the connection between quantum mechanics and the indistinguishability of particles, suggesting that the differences in statistical treatment (Bose-Einstein vs. Maxwell-Boltzmann) may not be fundamentally quantum in nature.
  • Another participant emphasizes that while statistics may introduce additional features, the quantum behavior of individual particles is also relevant when considering multiple indistinguishable particles.
  • There is a call for specificity regarding the behaviors of BECs that are under discussion, indicating a need for clarity on what constitutes quantum behavior in this context.
  • Some participants express confusion about the classification of BECs as classical or quantum, with differing opinions on the implications of their statistical properties.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on whether BECs can be classified as classical objects. Multiple competing views are presented regarding the nature of quantum effects and the role of statistics in understanding BECs.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of distinguishing between classical and quantum behaviors, particularly in the context of statistical mechanics and the implications of particle indistinguishability. There are unresolved questions about the direct observation of quantum behavior and the definitions used in the discussion.

  • #31
It is not a BEC, but superconductivity can be used do demonstrate several macroscopic quantum phemomena. The exisitence of the condensate is of course in itself a QM effect, but a somewhat more dramatic demonstration would be macroscopic quantum tunnelling in Josephson junctions and SQUIDs. This was first demonstrated some 25 years ago so it is hardly new.

See e.g. the book on MQT by Takagi

More recently (the past 10 years or so) there have been plenty of demonstrations of superconducting qubits, where large (tens of microns) circuit elements are used.

An even more recent development is the demonstrations of superposition of states in mechanical oscillators. There is a nice TED talk about it by one of the guys who did one of the first experiments.

Hence, it would be silly to argue that QM effects can NOT be observed at the macropscopic scale, there is plenty of experimental evidence.
 

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