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artis
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Moderator's note: This is spin-off from
https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/why-randomness-means-incomplete-understanding.975227
Reading this thread I would like to point out one aspect that makes me wonder personally and has also been mentioned here by other users.
The decay of atoms. Surely most here as well as elsewhere answer right away that this is random, and arguably isolating a single atom and then "waiting" for it to decay it, really seems random, as the decay times differ in each case. The problem I think gets more serious when we consider a multi particle system, let's take a radioactive substance X, we can have 1kg of that substance corresponding to N number of particles or 10kg having Nx10 number of particles or any other value of particles in any other system of the same substance. We know that the radioactive decay rate aka half-life will still be the same. Surely the individual atom decay is seemingly random yet somehow when there is a whole system of particles, even if separated by distance, as long as they are of the same type of material they have the same half life.
The next answer I read often is about the probabilistic nature of decay (as well as other quantum processes)
I can understand probability and it's randomness but what seems very odd to me is the time accuracy of the decay properties of the system which seemingly operates on purely random no-memory type of mechanism.
I don't say that a dice analogy is the best one as that is a classical (macro) example not a quantum one but surely U235 has been accurate in this "random dice rolling" for billions of years as well as other isotopes like C14.
Maybe I'm missing out something here, and writing in the evening is less productive so pardon for any obvious mistakes, but isn't such "perfect randomness" the exact opposite of what is normally considered random?
By perfect randomness I mean not the decay of individual atoms themselves but the corresponding decay of exactly the right amount of atoms in each half life given atoms have no memory or consciousness.So we could argue about any other system where the individual part of the micro system and it's properties seem random yet when many such individual parts are looked at together they always produce specific results which is the reason why we have any specific properties in our macro world at all isn't it ?
PS. shouldn't a purely random process behind nuclear decay result in a shift in the accuracy of half life when spread over a very long period of time? Otherwise I feel that saying that the process is random is just a way to avoid saying that we don't have an explanation of why seemingly individual/undetermin atoms produce on average very precise
https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/why-randomness-means-incomplete-understanding.975227
Reading this thread I would like to point out one aspect that makes me wonder personally and has also been mentioned here by other users.
The decay of atoms. Surely most here as well as elsewhere answer right away that this is random, and arguably isolating a single atom and then "waiting" for it to decay it, really seems random, as the decay times differ in each case. The problem I think gets more serious when we consider a multi particle system, let's take a radioactive substance X, we can have 1kg of that substance corresponding to N number of particles or 10kg having Nx10 number of particles or any other value of particles in any other system of the same substance. We know that the radioactive decay rate aka half-life will still be the same. Surely the individual atom decay is seemingly random yet somehow when there is a whole system of particles, even if separated by distance, as long as they are of the same type of material they have the same half life.
The next answer I read often is about the probabilistic nature of decay (as well as other quantum processes)
I can understand probability and it's randomness but what seems very odd to me is the time accuracy of the decay properties of the system which seemingly operates on purely random no-memory type of mechanism.
I don't say that a dice analogy is the best one as that is a classical (macro) example not a quantum one but surely U235 has been accurate in this "random dice rolling" for billions of years as well as other isotopes like C14.
Maybe I'm missing out something here, and writing in the evening is less productive so pardon for any obvious mistakes, but isn't such "perfect randomness" the exact opposite of what is normally considered random?
By perfect randomness I mean not the decay of individual atoms themselves but the corresponding decay of exactly the right amount of atoms in each half life given atoms have no memory or consciousness.So we could argue about any other system where the individual part of the micro system and it's properties seem random yet when many such individual parts are looked at together they always produce specific results which is the reason why we have any specific properties in our macro world at all isn't it ?
PS. shouldn't a purely random process behind nuclear decay result in a shift in the accuracy of half life when spread over a very long period of time? Otherwise I feel that saying that the process is random is just a way to avoid saying that we don't have an explanation of why seemingly individual/undetermin atoms produce on average very precise
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