Undergrad Are Lab Experiments with Strong Magnetic Fields and Plasma Expensive?

[avpol]

TL;DR

What's the cost of lab experiments?

What is the cost of lab experiments? I do understand that it depends, but let's say it's the cost of experiments conducted in a western country involving 1) strong magnetic fields; 2) plasma.
Also, can one find price lists for such things online?
Thanks.

 

[sophiecentaur]

Summary: What's the cost of lab experiments?

What is the cost of lab experiments? I do understand that it depends, but let's say it's the cost of experiments conducted in a western country involving 1) strong magnetic fields; 2) plasma.
Also, can one find price lists for such things online?
Thanks.

Sorry but this is just 'How long is a piece of string?'
If you have a particular sort of experiment in mind then search for papers in that field or look in textbooks. That should give you an idea of the equipment involved.

If you just fancy doing stuff with strong magnetic fields then you need to specify how strong. Will permanent magnets do the job? Will strong conventional electromagnets be needed? Will you need superconducting magnets. I guess there is a ratio of at least 1000:1 involved in max and min costs.

It sounds as if you are a student and you want some ideas. Let me tell you; it's the theory that comes first, then the idea about how to test it experimentally and, way down the line, the list of equipment. First time through you'll conclude that you need half a million dollars and then you modify your ideas and plan a much more modest experiment. Of course, if you plan to work in an established lab then it will already stocked with equipment that's suitable for doing the work they're interested in. So the incremental cost of a new experiment will be less. The string will already be a bit shorter.

 

[jrmichler]

Or if you are on a low budget, and your desired strong magnetic field is about one Tesla, then go to the hardware store and buy a neodymium magnet. Borrow an arc welder to generate a plasma, and you have everything you asked for: a strong magnetic field and a plasma. All for about $10.00 USD.

On the other hand, if you want to experiment with nuclear fusion, $10,000,000,000 should get you started.

 

[sophiecentaur]

@avpol He's joking about the arc welder. You absolutely have to have eye protection and to know all the rules about handling plasmas. You can literally fry your retina if you don't know what you're doing.

PS To avoid eye problems with high intensity arcs, do what I saw a guy on YouTube did. He used his smart phone camera, pointed through a hole in some board and was happily welding away with no danger and the picture was perfectly exposed. Not sure how long the camera lasted but spots on a retina are worse than spots on an imaging chip.

 

[malawi_glenn]

Borrow an arc welder to generate a plasma

A regular candle and some matches can be more convinent
Strong electric fields though:

 

[avpol]

Thanks a lot to all for your replies!

 

[jrmichler]

Another low cost possibility ($50) is a plasma globe, such at this one (randomly picked after searching plasma globes): https://www.arborsci.com/products/8...MIitXl0_-b-QIVmB6tBh2Hgw21EAQYAiABEgLoWvD_BwE.

A sample quote from the instruction sheet:
Use the plasma globe to study plasmas and electrical discharges.

A sample activity from the datasheet is given below.

The first thing you and your students will notice about the sphere is that by placing a conductor (your finger will do nicely) near the surface of the globe, the streams of plasma seem attracted to it. Since the plasma streams are composed of ionized gas molecules, these charged particles are attracted to an uncharged object, similar to the way a charged balloon is attracted to a neutral object (like the wall of your room). You may want to encourage your students to experiment and see if they can attract more streams with different types of conductors or insulators. (How about a magnet?)

 

[avpol]

Another low cost possibility ($50) is a plasma globe, such at this one (randomly picked after searching plasma globes): https://www.arborsci.com/products/8-plasma-globe?currency=USD&variant=18111877087305&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Google Shopping&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIitXl0_-b-QIVmB6tBh2Hgw21EAQYAiABEgLoWvD_BwE.

A sample quote from the instruction sheet:
Use the plasma globe to study plasmas and electrical discharges.

A sample activity from the datasheet is given below.

The first thing you and your students will notice about the sphere is that by placing a conductor (your finger will do nicely) near the surface of the globe, the streams of plasma seem attracted to it. Since the plasma streams are composed of ionized gas molecules, these charged particles are attracted to an uncharged object, similar to the way a charged balloon is attracted to a neutral object (like the wall of your room). You may want to encourage your students to experiment and see if they can attract more streams with different types of conductors or insulators. (How about a magnet?)

Thanks!

 

[malawi_glenn]

Another low cost possibility ($50) is a plasma globe,

Those bring out some memories for sure!

 

[ohwilleke]

The planet Earth, collectively, spends about $3 billion USD per year on constructing and operating particle colliders (construction is about 1/3rd of the total cost). https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-0221/9/07/T07002/pdf

 

[malawi_glenn]

The planet Earth, collectively, spends about $3 billion USD per year on constructing and operating particle colliders

Which is like 10 or so major hospitals.
When I get rich as Musk, CERN is mine! Build me that insane ep-collider!

 

[avpol]

The planet Earth, collectively, spends about $3 billion USD per year on constructing and operating particle colliders (construction is about 1/3rd of the total cost). https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-0221/9/07/T07002/pdf

I know that colliders are expensive, but they are absolutely out of the scope of my interest:-). That's why I mentioned magnetic fields and plasma (and no particles:-)).

 

[ohwilleke]

I know that colliders are expensive, but they are absolutely out of the scope of my interest:-). That's why I mentioned magnetic fields and plasma (and no particles:-)).

The main reason to consider that cost is to know the rough upper bound of what an experiment can cost. These experiments are pretty much as expensive as it gets. Everything else is cheaper.

 

[berkeman]

I know that colliders are expensive, but they are absolutely out of the scope of my interest:-). That's why I mentioned magnetic fields and plasma (and no particles:-)).

50 USD at Amazon -- Macro collider demonstration experiment:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07Y5S5YWR/?tag=pfamazon01-20

 

[TeethWhitener]

I’d say most *individual* academic and/or government research groups in the US have an annual budget of between a few hundred $k and a few $M. Much of that money goes to personnel (can range from a few grad students to dozens of students and staff scientists) and overhead. Lab equipment and supplies can run from a few thousand dollars a year to hundreds of thousands (as a general rule, chem and physics labs are cheaper; bio labs are more expensive, and god help you if you want to do animal research), but usually people share/buy time on really expensive instruments, which are often paid for with some sort of departmental fund (think an X-ray diffractometer or an electron microscope: really nice ones can be over $1M, but usually end up in a shared facility). This probably isn’t out of the ordinary for plasma physics (NB—I’m not in that field), unless of course you want to do something really high energy or large-scale like fusion.

 

[malawi_glenn]

50 USD at Amazon -- Macro collider demonstration experiment:

That was expensive! I can make my own for less :)
Perhaps the Tevatron is up for grabs?

Everything else is cheaper.

What about ITER?

 

[avpol]

Thanks to all for your replies!

 

[malawi_glenn]

Thanks to all for your replies!

How come you ask?

 

[avpol]

How come you ask?

The fact is, I know about a startup raising funds for a project that involves both theoretical and experimental work in the field of physics. I know more or less how much the theoretical part costs, but I know nothing about how much experiments may cost. That's why I asked:-).

 

[berkeman]

The fact is, I know about a startup raising funds for a project that involves both theoretical and experimental work in the field of physics. I know more or less how much the theoretical part costs, but I know nothing about how much experiments may cost. That's why I asked:-).

Just read their business plan. All such costs will be detailed in the business plan for a startup.

 

[avpol]

Just read their business plan. All such costs will be detailed in the business plan for a startup.

Of course I would read it if I had access:-). I just know it's connected with propulsion systems for space industry; an exact solution isn't chosen yet, but magnetic fields and plasma are considered among other options.
From what I've read in this thread I dare conclude it won't be extremely expensive.

 

[Vanadium 50]

If a company wants you to invest and doesn't have or won't show you their business plan, keep your money in your pocket.

 

[avpol]

If a company wants you to invest and doesn't have or won't show you their business plan, keep your money in your pocket.

Thanks for the advice! I'm not an investor; I'm examining the landscape of tech startups of a particular type.