Are Ratios of IID Exponential Variables Independent of Their Sample Average?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the independence of the ratio of two independent, identically distributed exponential random variables and their relationship with the sample average of a larger set of such variables. Participants explore the implications of this independence and seek to understand the underlying reasoning and potential exceptions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Debate/contested, Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant claims that the ratio of any two IID exponential variables (e.g., X_1 / X_2) is independent of the sample average (1/n * ∑ X_i) and seeks to understand the reasoning behind this result.
  • Another participant suggests that this independence may relate to a concept of scale invariance and proposes simplifying the analysis to focus on the independence of X/Y and X+Y.
  • A different participant questions the general independence of X/Y and X+Y, indicating difficulty in demonstrating this independence.
  • In a subsequent post, a participant provides a counterexample using IID variables taking values 1 and 2, concluding that X/Y and X+Y are not independent in this case.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the independence of the ratio and the sum of the variables, with some supporting the initial claim of independence and others providing counterexamples that challenge this notion. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the general case.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights potential limitations in demonstrating independence, particularly in specific cases or examples, and raises questions about the assumptions underlying the independence claims.

e12514
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Suppose I have a sample X_1, ..., X_n of independently, identically distributed exponential random variables.

One result I deducted was that the ratio of any two of them (eg. X_1 / X_2) is independent of the sample average 1/n * \sum_{i=1}^{n} X_i.
(Aside: that ratio, as a random variable, has a Pareto distribution)

What's the reasoning/ intuitive appeal behind that? I know that any datapoint from an independently, identically distributed sample is in general not independent of the sample average unless there is zero variance, so.. How do we interpret this result here? Why is the ratio independent of the sample average?
 
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My gut feeling is that this is a manifestation of some sort of scale invariance. Incidentally, we can simplify the situation by doing away with all of the other variables -- we're just looking at the independence of X/Y and X+Y.
 
Are X/Y and X+Y independent (given X and Y are)? I can't seem to show that in general...
 
e12514 said:
Are X/Y and X+Y independent (given X and Y are)? I can't seem to show that in general...

No. Just to pick a simple example, suppose that X and Y are IID taking the values 1,2 each with a 50% probability.

X/Y=1/2 or X/Y = 2/1 <=> X+Y = 3
X/Y = 1 <=> X+Y = 2 or 4

so they aren't independent.
 

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