Are sounds louder under water?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the question of whether sounds are perceived as louder under water compared to air, examining the physical and mathematical differences in sound propagation in these two mediums. Participants explore concepts related to sound pressure, acoustic impedance, and the physiological aspects of hearing in different environments.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether the amplitude of sound pressure waves is greater in water than in air, seeking the underlying mathematical or physical bases for any differences.
  • Another participant suggests that there is an equation relevant to the discussion, prompting further investigation.
  • A participant identifies two key physical differences between water and air that may affect sound: incompressibility and density.
  • One contributor explains that 'loudness' relates to both perception and actual power flux, introducing the concept of acoustic impedance as a critical factor in sound transmission between air and water.
  • A mathematical relationship between intensity and pressure amplitude is presented, highlighting that a medium with larger impedance requires greater pressure to achieve the same intensity.
  • The participant notes that while the impedance of water is significantly higher than that of air, this does not necessarily correlate with a perception of increased loudness, as it depends on how sound couples to the ear membrane.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between sound pressure, impedance, and perceived loudness, indicating that multiple competing perspectives remain unresolved.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the relationship between physical properties of mediums and human perception of sound, but these assumptions are not universally accepted or agreed upon by all participants.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to individuals studying acoustics, physiology of hearing, or those curious about the differences in sound perception in various environments.

BioMedPhD
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Given equal power at the sound source - is the amplitude (in pascals) of sound pressure waves greater in water than in air? - What is the mathematical or physical bases of any difference?
 
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What have you found so far on your one? There is an equation for it.
 
Two things to investigate with respect to physical differences between water and air:
1) incompressibility
2) density
 
Amongst a large number of Google hits, I found this one. The 'loudness' of a sound relates to our perception of it, as well as the actual Power Flux. The relevant quantity here is Acoustic Impedance, which is the ratio of acoustic pressure to acoustic flow. Our hearing system has to Match the energy in Air, which is a very low impedance to the conditions in our Cochlea which, being immersed in a liquid, is a high impedance. The Ossicles do not, as people say "amplify the sound" (they are not amplifiers). They are a set of tiny levers which act as Transformers (matching transformers like you get in sound and RF equipment). They transform the large movement of the ear drum at low pressure in the air to a smaller movement with greater pressure in the inner ear. So we would not perceive a high power sound in water as being as 'loud' as the (same power) sound in air because out system just reduces the amplitude of the vibrations transmitted. Aquatic animals do not need to do this transformation and their hearing under water will be much better.
 
The relationship between intensity and pressure amplitude is ## I= \frac{p^2}{2 \rho_0 c} ##.
Here I is the intensity in ## W/m^2 ## , ## \rho_0 ## is the density of the medium and c is the speed of sound in the medium. The product ## Z=\rho_0 c ## is the impedance of the medium.
So for a medium with larger impedance you need larger pressure in order to get the same intensity.
The impedance of water is about 1.5 x 10^6 Rayl and for air just about 450 Rayl. (Rayl is the unit for acoustic impedance in SI, just the name of the combination of units you get when multiply density by speed). So the pressure of sound waves is much larger in water than in air, for the same physical intensity.
But this does not necessarily mean that the sound will be perceived as "louder". It depends how the sound couples to your ear membrane. This was already treated by the above post, by @sophiecentaur.
 

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