Are static E fields non existant?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of static electric fields, particularly in the context of capacitors and their relationship to the motion of electrons and electromagnetic radiation. Participants explore the implications of quantum effects on classical interpretations of static fields and their potential to ionize electrons.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that static electric fields perceived in capacitors may be an averaging of electric fields created by moving electrons, implying a connection to electromagnetic radiation emitted by these electrons.
  • Another participant agrees, stating that classical phenomena that appear static are often the result of averaging quantum effects.
  • A question is raised about the ability of static fields to ionize electrons compared to low-energy electromagnetic radiation, highlighting a potential contradiction with Keldysh theory, which posits that high-intensity low-frequency radiation can also cause ionization.
  • Further discussion points out that Keldysh theory suggests multi-photon absorption can lead to ionization, even when individual photons do not provide enough energy to overcome the work function.
  • Concerns are expressed regarding the implications of high-intensity low-frequency radiation from power lines or microwave generators and its potential health risks, such as cancer.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between static electric fields and quantum effects, as well as the conditions under which ionization occurs. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives on these topics.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the assumptions made regarding the averaging of electric fields and the conditions under which ionization occurs. The discussion also touches on complex theories like Keldysh theory without fully resolving the implications of these theories in relation to static fields and radiation.

azaharak
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Since electrons can never be at rest because they have some non zero temperature,

Isn't the static E field that one would perceive in a capacitor just an averaging of all the E fields creates by electrons in motion on either side of the capacitor plates.

If this is so, since the electrons are in motion, they are emitting EM radiation (light, or photons)

Does that mean that Static E fields are really just averaging of photonic electric fields created by the electron?

(like a Fourier series of various frequencies added together to produce a constant or static field).
 
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Essentially yes. Pretty much anything classical that appears static is a result of the averaging out of quantum effects.
 
Thanks..


Is that why a "static" field can ionize an electron, but low energy EM radiation (low frequency) can not ionize an electron from its host atom?


Thanks again


AZ
 
Anyone?
 
azaharak said:
Thanks..


Is that why a "static" field can ionize an electron, but low energy EM radiation (low frequency) can not ionize an electron from its host atom?


Thanks again


AZ

This seems to contradict Keldysh theory, which states that even low frequency radiation can produce ionization if the intensity is high enough?

Seems the contradict the photoelectric experiment, but not really i guess.

Can anyone give a good description of all of this? I don't feel like they all go together.


Keldysh theory (states that multi absoprtion of photons can cause ionization) high intensity low frequency radiation (that normally provides less energy than the work function per photon) can still ionize an electron.

Static E fields are an average or superposition of radiation produced by electrons in thermal motion, their radiation allows for what would be called the classical energy gained by an electron in a static field?

Photo electric effect deals that energy is absorbed in quanta, increasing frequency above work function results in freeing electrons rather than increasing intensity.

If high intensity low radiation can still ionize, doesn't this cause cancer scares for power lines or high intensity microwave generators?


THANKS!
 
Any physics genie s out there?
 
Anyone?
 

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