# Aristotle's Absolute Space & Time: Explained

• I
• Thytanium
In summary, the space of Galileo and Newton is the projection π(s) = t on the time axis. The time space of Galileo and Newton cannot be represented as ordered pairs.
Thytanium
TL;DR Summary
The relative space of Galileo and Newton can be considered as fibers of the axis of absolute time but the absolute space time of Aristotle cannot.
Aristotle's absolute space and time can be represented as ordered pairs (s, t) but not as fibers π(s) = t of time as is the case of Galileo and Newton's space time. That is to say that the space of Galileo and Newton is the projection π(s) = t on the time axis. The time space of Galileo and Newton cannot be represented as ordered pairs. How is that understood?

Can you give us any references of what you mean? And what are fibers of axis?

jim mcnamara
Penrose makes distinction between Aristotelian and Galilean space-times (and Newtonian), for example in "Structure of Space-time". May be in "The Road to Reality" as well, but if you didn't understand it, you probably need some more background in mathematics. I don't see how discussing it here could help you.

In any case it would help if you cite your sources and ask more specific questions than "How is that understood?".

Klystron and jim mcnamara
Thanks for answering friends of the forum: fresh_42 and martinbn. My question arises from Bernard Schutz's book entitled: "Geometrical Metothods of Matematical Physics," Chapter 2, Section 2.11, which deals with fiber spaces. There is a figure 2.13 that shows space as fibers of time. I have also read an article entitled "Fibrated spaces and connections in relativity" that appears on the Web and whose author is the physicist Williams Pitter of the Zulia University and in Spanish language that refers to the cartesian product of the absolute space and time of Aristotle and mentions also the space time of Galileo and Newton and other examples. But in reality what I do not understand is that absolute time space cannot be represented as fibers, and relative time spaces have geometric structure of fibers, that is what I do not understand. Thank you friends for your help and for answering my questions. Grateful to you.

It would help a lot if we had a description of the spacetime models of Aristoteles and Newton. AFAIK they are all classical Euclidean spaces, i.e. trivial fiber bundles, and then we have absolute spacetime and time as a fiber of a spatial point.

In general relativity there is no distinction between time and space anymore, except that they are different coordinates. We do not have a global coordinate system anymore, but that was not what you asked.

Here is a description of what we are talking about mathematically:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_(fiber_bundle)Since you have posted this under differential geometry, the question is: What is ##(E,B,p)## in your various models?

Thanks friend fresh_42. Grateful to you.

berkeman
Hello friends of the Forum. I have continued researching on this issue of the space time of Aristotle, Galileo and Newton and I have achieved some results to know what you think about that. For Aristotle, space was absolute because he considered that the Earth was motionless and the center of the universe and space outside the Earth or cosmic was motionless and subject to the earth, so the mainland was the only valid reference system, and excludes the mobile reference systems and therefore the space referred to the mainland was absolute. With Galileo and Newton things changed because the transformations of them for inertial systems leave the acceleration invariant in all those systems moving at constant speed and in a straight line so there are infinite mobile inertial reference systems in addition to the mainland and therefore the relative space of Galileo and Newton can be considered fibres of the time axis as it appears in the figure of attach file in which an object at rest would be represented as a parallel time line and a mobile would be represented as a diagonal line. This fibre structure could not be done with the absolute time space of Aristotle because it admits infinite inertial referential systems and for Aristotle there is only one and it is the mainland. Aristotle's absolute time-space events can then only be represented as the Cartesian product of two different sets that are space and time. Excuse me because it isn't Theme of differential geometry. Excuse me. Thanks for all.

#### Attachments

• Fibrado de Galileo y Newton..docx
12.6 KB · Views: 282

## 1. What is Aristotle's concept of absolute space and time?

Aristotle believed that space and time are absolute and independent entities that exist on their own, separate from any objects or events. He argued that they are not created by the movement of objects, but rather provide the framework for movement and change to occur.

## 2. How does Aristotle's concept of absolute space and time differ from Newton's?

Unlike Aristotle, Newton believed that space and time are relative and dependent on the movement of objects. He proposed that space and time are part of a unified structure known as space-time, and can be affected by the presence of matter and energy.

## 3. What evidence did Aristotle use to support his theory of absolute space and time?

Aristotle used observations of natural phenomena, such as the motion of celestial bodies, to support his theory. He believed that the regular and predictable movements of these objects were evidence of the existence of absolute space and time.

## 4. How did Einstein's theory of relativity impact Aristotle's concept of absolute space and time?

Einstein's theory of relativity challenged the idea of absolute space and time by proposing that they are relative and can be affected by the presence of matter and energy. This theory has been supported by numerous experiments and observations, leading to the rejection of Aristotle's concept.

## 5. Is Aristotle's concept of absolute space and time still relevant in modern science?

No, Aristotle's concept of absolute space and time is no longer accepted in modern science. The concept of relative space and time, as proposed by Einstein's theory of relativity, has been supported by numerous experiments and observations and is now the accepted understanding of space and time in physics.

• Special and General Relativity
Replies
29
Views
2K
• Differential Geometry
Replies
8
Views
2K
• Differential Geometry
Replies
2
Views
3K
• Special and General Relativity
Replies
5
Views
1K
• Differential Geometry
Replies
1
Views
205
• Differential Geometry
Replies
1
Views
2K
• Classical Physics
Replies
25
Views
1K
• Classical Physics
Replies
7
Views
915
• Special and General Relativity
Replies
12
Views
1K
• Special and General Relativity
Replies
48
Views
4K