B Artificial gravity rotating on two axes

AI Thread Summary
The discussion centers on the complexities of rotating objects and the concept of artificial gravity in a spaceship. It explores whether an object can stably rotate on two axes simultaneously, noting that angular momentum typically points in one direction, complicating the notion of dual-axis rotation. Participants debate the implications of gyroscopic precession and the effects of external forces on rotation, emphasizing that any rigid body can only have a single rotational vector at a time. The conversation also touches on the mathematical representation of combined rotations, suggesting that they can be modeled as a single rotation around an oblique axis. Ultimately, the thread highlights the challenges in conceptualizing and defining rotation in three-dimensional space.
DaveC426913
Gold Member
Messages
23,830
Reaction score
7,815
TL;DR Summary
What would occupants experience inside a spaceship rotating on two axes?
The world building thread about a derelict spaceship got me wondering.

An object can rotate on two axes simultaneously, yes? Is that stable in flat space?

If so, what would occupants experience as gravity? Would it change over time?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Are you imagining that if there were dwarfs in these bottles what would they experience ?

If they are floating in the hollow space in the bottle, they feel no gravity. The walls around are moving with no simple periodicity. If they have reference frame fixed with the walls, artificial gravity they feel would be complex one.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
  • Informative
Likes Delta2 and DaveC426913
Yes, if their spaceship were rotating, eventually air drag will bring them to the floor. There,inertia would be experienced as ersatz gravity.
 
For an object freely rotating there are two stable body axes of rotation (maximal an minimal moments of inertia). Other axes are unstable. So the rotating on two axes seems problematic.
 
  • Like
Likes TonyStewart
What does it even mean to be rotating about two axes? The angular momentum points in only one direction.
 
  • Like
Likes Delta2, phinds, vanhees71 and 3 others
Vanadium 50 said:
What does it even mean to be rotating about two axes? The angular momentum points in only one direction.
Gyroscopic precession is one way, I think. But can that happen in zero g without an applied force?

So, we take a stationary cigar-shaped spaceship, and set it spinning around its long axis.
Now we give one end a tap (or use attitude jets) to attempt to apply a rotation along a(ny) short axis.
What rotation does the ship get?

Is it always possible to sum these vectors to come up with a rotation about a single (albeit off-kilter) axis?

BTW, it is this thread/post that inspired this line of thought.
 
Last edited:
anuttarasammyak said:

Yes. The book in this video, 0:17s - 0:28s, appears to be rotating about two axes simultaneously.

I'm not sure if that is an objective phenomenon, or if it only seems to be rotating about two axes because the shape of the book strongly implies three very un-arbitrary axes to our brains, and therefore it we track two axes.

So, does a single (albeit oblique) axis of rotation exist for this book?

(I think it does. I think it's here:)
1652495249764.png
 

Attachments

  • 1652495078178.png
    1652495078178.png
    34.7 KB · Views: 152
Last edited:
Vanadium 50 said:
What does it even mean to be rotating about two axes? The angular momentum points in only one direction.

Yes, that would be like saying the Earth were rotating on multiple axes because of the wobble!
 
“The Bizarre Behavior of Rotating Bodies”.
 
  • #10


These are spinning in two axis. I’m not sure if that is stable in space however. I’m thinking it “wants” to change axis of rotation but it can’t because of the table top?
 
  • Like
Likes OmCheeto
  • #11
Baluncore said:
“The Bizarre Behavior of Rotating Bodies”.
Yes. I've seen this, and have thought of it. I'm not sure it answer my question, but it might be useful to @Melbourne Guy
 
  • Like
Likes Melbourne Guy
  • #12
This is what I thought the OP was originally asking. Imagine a very large enclosed gravity wheel turning in space at the correct speed, like the jogger on the space station on 2001 a Space Odyssey. Now imagine that the wheel was not turning but instead it was spinning on an axis that was a diameter of the wheel and the jogger was now standing still but the wheel was turning on the diameter axis at the correct speed such that it provided the correct artificial gravity such that the person could stand still on that spot.

Now, if I understand it correctly I think the OP was asking what would be the inertial forces on the person standing still if the wheel now also began rotating around it's original hub type rotation.
 
  • #13
bland said:
Yes, that would be like saying the Earth were rotating on multiple axes because of the wobble!
If there isn't a single axis of rotation, then (by definition) the motion is not a rotation.
 
  • Like
Likes Vanadium 50
  • #14
A rigid object can (obviously) only have a single rotational vector at any given instance in time, but this rotation vector may not be parallel to any of the principal axes of the object in which case it is called non-pure rotation. Since "rotation around two axis at once" does not really make any sense taken literally, I guess one could take it to mean non-pure rotation, but then why not just call it that, i.e non-pure rotation. Alternatively one could say "rotation around a non-principal axis".
 
  • Like
Likes russ_watters, jbriggs444 and PeroK
  • #15
Filip Larsen said:
Since "rotation around two axis at once" does not really make any sense taken literally

I'm not understanding something, is this following scenario not considered rotation about two axis at once?

Rotation round two axis.jpg
 
  • Like
  • Love
Likes Delta2, OmCheeto and DaveC426913
  • #16
erobz said:
I'm not understanding something, is this following scenario not considered rotation about two axis at once?

View attachment 301451
If we combine a rotation of angular frequency ##w_x## about the x-axis and ##w_z## about the z-axis, then we have a rotation about the axis ##(w_x, 0, w_z)##, with magnitude ##\sqrt{w_x^2 + w_z^2}##.

In other words, the continuous rotations add like vectors.
 
  • Wow
Likes Delta2
  • #17
erobz said:
is this following scenario not considered rotation about two axis at once
As mentioned, any rigid object can only have a single rotation vector at any given time, but it may very well be that such a vector is not parallel with the principal axis of the object. In your drawing that would be the black center line of the cylinder plus any two orthogonal axes in the plane through center of mass and orthogonal to the center line.

But perhaps you are asking why any rotation of a rigid body can be modeled as the rotation around a single axis? If so, the best quick answer I can come up with is Euler's rotation theorem which states that any sequence of spatial rotations can always be modeled as an equivalent rotation around a single axis. With a little hand-waving you can imagine that trying to rotate a free rigid object around two axis at once by applying two orthogonal torques will "combine" into a single resulting torque giving rotation around a single unique axis at any given time.
 
  • Informative
Likes DrClaude
  • #18
A few points to note.

1) If we ignore translation of the centre of mass of a rigid object, then any change to the object's position can only be a rotation.

2) As above, associated with any change in position there must be an axis and angle of rotation.

3) Although finite rotations do not commute, infinitesimal rotations do. Any continuous rotation, therefore, can be expressed as a vector ##\vec w = (w_x, w_y, w_z)##.

4) If, however, the components of ##\vec w## are changing continuously in different ways, then the resulting motion is not a continuous rotation - as the axis of rotation is changing with time. In which case, we can have continuous motion that is not a continuous rotation. (Even though at each instant we can find an instantaneous axis of rotation. And, the position of the rigid body at any time must be a rotation of its initial position).
 
  • Like
Likes vanhees71 and Filip Larsen
  • #19
People seem confused by rotation. Is a body moving northeast going "in two directions at once"?
 
  • Like
Likes Delta2, russ_watters, jbriggs444 and 1 other person
  • #20
Maybe this basic primer about rigid-body dynamics helps:

https://itp.uni-frankfurt.de/~hees/pf-faq/spinning-top.pdf

The momentary rotation of the body is, of course, described by the momentary angular velocity, which is one vector. It doesn't make sense to say something is "rotating on two axes", it's just momentarily rotating around one axis given by the direction of the angular velocity.
 
  • Like
Likes PeroK
  • #21
Vanadium 50 said:
People seem confused by rotation. Is a body moving northeast going "in two directions at once"?
No, it's just very hard to conceptualize - this:
PeroK said:
If we combine a rotation of angular frequency ##w_x## about the x-axis and ##w_z## about the z-axis, then we have a rotation about the axis ##(w_x, 0, w_z)##, with magnitude ##\sqrt{w_x^2 + w_z^2}##.

In other words, the continuous rotations add like vectors.
I'm going to munge some things in my head for a second:

Let's say we have a body rotating once per second about the x-axis and once per ten seconds about the z-axis.
So there is a single axis a out which this object is rotating.

It is rotating about axis (1,0,10) with magnitude ##\sqrt{101}##.
 
Last edited:
  • #22
DaveC426913 said:
It is rotating about axis (1,0,10) with magnitude 101
Yes, but with magnitude ##\sqrt{101}## rps.
 
  • #23
PeroK said:
Yes, but with magnitude ##\sqrt{101}## rps.
Yes. I was off searching for the root symbol to paste in.
 
  • Haha
Likes PeroK
  • #24
DaveC426913 said:
It is rotating about axis (1,0,10)
What does this mean though? What units are those? Or are they unitless, being merely ratiotic.
 
  • #25
DaveC426913 said:
Yes. I was off searching for the root symbol to paste in.
How can be rotating at about 10 rps when the two rotations have 1 rps and 0.1 rps? (or you don't mean rotations per second when you write "rps"?)
 
  • #26
DaveC426913 said:
What does this mean though? What units are those? Or are they unitless, being merely ratiotic.
It's just a direction. It doesn't need units as such.
 
  • #27
PeroK said:
It's just a direction. It doesn't need units as such.
Allow me to add a small note to others reading this to avoid confusion: when talking about angular velocity, and not just a rotation axis that only encodes the direction of the axis, then the magnitude of the vector (and thus each component) has the unit scale of "time-1"; in practice the unit rad/s is very often used.
 
  • #28
DaveC426913 said:
What does this mean though? What units are those? Or are they unitless, being merely ratiotic.
The correct unit for angular velocity is 1/s. ##|\vec{\omega}|## is the momentary change of the rotation angle per unit time.
 
  • #29
PeroK said:
It's just a direction. It doesn't need units as such.
Then you mean the unit vector defining the rotation axis, but ##\vec{\omega}## is angular velocity. You can of course write ##\vec{\omega}=|\vec{\omega}| \vec{n}##. Then ##\vec{n}## is dimension less and ##|\vec{n}|=1##; ##\vec{\omega}## has the dimension 1/s (in the SI).
 
  • #30
vanhees71 said:
Then you mean the unit vector defining the rotation axis, but ##\vec{\omega}## is angular velocity. You can of course write ##\vec{\omega}=|\vec{\omega}| \vec{n}##. Then ##\vec{n}## is dimension less and ##|\vec{n}|=1##; ##\vec{\omega}## has the dimension 1/s (in the SI).
The tuple ##(x, y, z)## defines a direction. It doesn't need units, per se. Usually it's a normalised unit vector ##(n_x, n_y, n_z)##. In any case, it's just three numbers.
 
  • #31
No matter, how you write it, ##\vec{\omega}## has the dimension 1/time.
 
  • Like
Likes nasu
  • #32
I get the mathematics, but I still don't "see it"

Rotation round two axis-2.jpg


The rotation for the diagram I shown has a magnitude of the vector in the shaded plane, and is rotating about an axis through the origin in the direction of the vector. My brain is refusing to cooperate in understanding this.
 
  • Like
Likes Delta2
  • #33
erobz said:
I'm not understanding something, is this following scenario not considered rotation about two axis at once?

View attachment 301451
I'm with you and Dave on this one. It sounds like everyone else is saying the two circular rotations add up to a new circular rotation for any given point on the object. But it's shown in the video you posted (#10) that the points are not following a simple circular paths.

Numberphile Strange Spinning Tubes Screen Shot 2022-05-15 at 5.03.21 AM.png
 
  • #34
OmCheeto said:
I'm with you and Dave on this one. It sounds like everyone else is saying the two circular rotations add up to a new circular rotation for any given point on the object. But it's shown in the video you posted (#10) that the points are not following a simple circular paths.
There is an external torque on the object in that video, so its angular momentum is not constant. As explained in post #18, rotation is the special case where the angular momentum is constant - or, at least, the axis of rotation is constant. The video shows an example of the more general motion where the instantaneous axis of rotation is changing with time.

In this case the applied torque changes its direction as the contact point moves around the circle.

In this respect, pure rotation is the equivalent of linear motion for Newton's first law. If you apply an external force, then an object may move in a curved path. And, if you apply a torque, then you may lose the pure rotational motion.
 
  • Informative
Likes OmCheeto
  • #35
Let's see, how mathematically the angular velocity comes about. To this end think of a rigid rod with one end fixed and free to rotate around this point. Make ##\vec{n}(t)## the vector from the fixed end to the other end. Then it's clear that
$$\vec{n}(t) = \hat{D}(t) \vec{n}_0,$$
where ##\vec{n}_0=\vec{n}(0)## is the vector at time ##T=0##, and ##\hat{D}(t)## is a rotation. In the following I consider ##\vec{n}## as the column vector of its components wrt. a Cartesian basis. Then ##\hat{D}(t)## is a orthogonal matrix, fulfilling ##\hat{D}^{\mathrm{T}} \hat{D}=\hat{D} \hat{D}^{\mathrm{T}}=\hat{1}## with ##\mathrm{det} \hat{D}=1##.

Now let's take the time derivative:
$$\dot{\vec{n}}(t)=\dot{\hat{D}}(t) \vec{n}_0 = \dot{\hat{D}}(t) \hat{D}^{\text{T}}(t) \vec{n}(t). \qquad (*)$$
Now from the orthogonality of ##\hat{D}## we have
$$\dot{\hat{D}} \hat{D}^{\text{T}} = -\hat{D} \dot{\hat{D}}^T = - \left ( \dot{\hat{D}} \hat{D}^{\text{T}} \right)^{\text{T}},$$
i.e., ##\hat{\Omega}=\dot{\hat{D}}(t) \hat{D}^{\text{T}}(t)## is an antisymmetric matrix, and we thus can write
$$\Omega_{jk}=\epsilon_{jlk} \omega_l,$$
and thus from (*)
$$\dot{n}_j=\Omega_{jk} n_k = \epsilon_{jlk} \omega_l n_k = (\vec{\omega} \times \vec{n})_j,$$
or
$$\dot{\vec{n}}=\vec{\omega} \times \vec{n}.$$
One calls ##\vec{\omega}## the angular velocity. The change of the vector ##n## during a small time ##\mathrm{d} t## is
$$\mathrm{d} \vec{n} = \mathrm{d} t \vec{\omega} \times \vec{n}.$$
From the geometrical meaning of the dot product that means that the infinitesimal rotation is around an axis given by the direction ##\vec{\omega}/|\vec{\omega}|##, implying the direction of rotation to be according to the right-hand rule, and the infinitesimal rotation angle is ##|\vec{\omega}| \mathrm{d} t##.

Of course you can decompose ##\vec{\omega}## in terms of an arbitrary (Cartesian) basis, and the infinitesimal rotation can be seen as composed of several infinitesimal rotations around the corresponding axes, but still it's just a rotation around one given axis.
 
  • Like
Likes wrobel
  • #36
vanhees71 said:
Let's see, how mathematically the angular velocity comes about. To this end think of a rigid rod with one end fixed and free to rotate around this point. Make ##\vec{n}(t)## the vector from the fixed end to the other end. Then it's clear that
$$\vec{n}(t) = \hat{D}(t) \vec{n}_0,$$
where ##\vec{n}_0=\vec{n}(0)## is the vector at time ##T=0##, and ##\hat{D}(t)## is a rotation. In the following I consider ##\vec{n}## as the column vector of its components wrt. a Cartesian basis. Then ##\hat{D}(t)## is a orthogonal matrix, fulfilling ##\hat{D}^{\mathrm{T}} \hat{D}=\hat{D} \hat{D}^{\mathrm{T}}=\hat{1}## with ##\mathrm{det} \hat{D}=1##.

Now let's take the time derivative:
$$\dot{\vec{n}}(t)=\dot{\hat{D}}(t) \vec{n}_0 = \dot{\hat{D}}(t) \hat{D}^{\text{T}}(t) \vec{n}(t). \qquad (*)$$
Now from the orthogonality of ##\hat{D}## we have
$$\dot{\hat{D}} \hat{D}^{\text{T}} = -\hat{D} \dot{\hat{D}}^T = - \left ( \dot{\hat{D}} \hat{D}^{\text{T}} \right)^{\text{T}},$$
i.e., ##\hat{\Omega}=\dot{\hat{D}}(t) \hat{D}^{\text{T}}(t)## is an antisymmetric matrix, and we thus can write
$$\Omega_{jk}=\epsilon_{jlk} \omega_l,$$
and thus from (*)
$$\dot{n}_j=\Omega_{jk} n_k = \epsilon_{jlk} \omega_l n_k = (\vec{\omega} \times \vec{n})_j,$$
or
$$\dot{\vec{n}}=\vec{\omega} \times \vec{n}.$$
One calls ##\vec{\omega}## the angular velocity. The change of the vector ##n## during a small time ##\mathrm{d} t## is
$$\mathrm{d} \vec{n} = \mathrm{d} t \vec{\omega} \times \vec{n}.$$
From the geometrical meaning of the dot product that means that the infinitesimal rotation is around an axis given by the direction ##\vec{\omega}/|\vec{\omega}|##, implying the direction of rotation to be according to the right-hand rule, and the infinitesimal rotation angle is ##|\vec{\omega}| \mathrm{d} t##.

Of course you can decompose ##\vec{\omega}## in terms of an arbitrary (Cartesian) basis, and the infinitesimal rotation can be seen as composed of several infinitesimal rotations around the corresponding axes, but still it's just a rotation around one given axis.

erobz said:
I get the mathematics
I remember once taking a class in linear algebra (I do still have the textbook)! I retract my earlier statement...:wideeyed:
 
  • Haha
  • Like
Likes hutchphd and OmCheeto
  • #37
vanhees71 said:
From the geometrical meaning of the dot product that means that the infinitesimal rotation is around an axis given by the direction ##\vec{\omega}/|\vec{\omega}|##, implying the direction of rotation to be according to the right-hand rule, and the infinitesimal rotation angle is ##|\vec{\omega}| \mathrm{d} t##.
Once more, in tiny words?
 
  • #38
What do you mean? What's not clear?
 
  • Haha
Likes Delta2
  • #39
DaveC426913 said:
Once more, in tiny words?
I think it's going to be an impossibility to explain in a simplified way. There is no 1D conceptualization I'm afraid. Hence, the multi-dimensional analysis is a minimum model.
 
  • Like
Likes Delta2
  • #40
vanhees71 said:
What do you mean? What's not clear?
I think he is giving a nod to the complexity of the issue. For me, I can understand most of the bits and pieces individually (probably), but putting it together...I'm not sure how long that would take.
 
  • Love
Likes Delta2
  • #41
Presumably, the calcs are describing a real world scenario, yes? That real world scenario must be fairly easy to describe. For example: to the question of does any solid rotating body always have a single axis of rotation, presumably there's a yes/no.
 
  • #42
erobz said:
I think he is giving a nod to the complexity of the issue. For me, I can understand most of the bits and pieces individually (probably), but putting it together...I'm not sure how long that would take.
I don't understand any of it. Perhaps PF needs a level below "B" as apparently even high school maths is WAY over my head.

Anyone seen @Janus lately? I'd like him to render the dual axis spinning cylinder as it would work on the ISS. Clear, with just a single point being traced out.
I found a youtube video of a sphere with dual rotation, but it was solid with flowers, and my brain couldn't handle whether or not each point was actually traveling in a circle.

 
  • #43
DaveC426913 said:
Presumably, the calcs are describing a real world scenario, yes? That real world scenario must be fairly easy to describe. For example: to the question of does any solid rotating body always have a single axis of rotation, presumably there's a yes/no.
The answer is yes. There are no cases where this is not so.

The rotation of a rigid object relative to any other frame of reference can always be completely described with a single angular velocity vector which, in general, vary over time both in direction and magnitude. This include both cases where the object is rotating freely in space with net external torque being zero or when it is constrained to rotate following multiple axis as shown in some of the video and thus experience a non-zero torque.

For example, if an object rotates due to be put into a device that has two axis of rotation, one "inside" or "after" the other, where the rotational speed around each of those two axes is simply set constant, then even as this can be seen as a "rotation around two axes" it can completely equivalently be model as a rotation around a single axis. When using rotation matrices to describe "individual" rotation then the effective rotation is found simply by matrix multiplication. If we first rotate around, say, the x-axis ##R_x(t)## and inside this (i.e. intrinsically) rotate around what was originally the y-axis ##R_{y'}(t)## then this combine into the effective rotation of ##R(t) = R_{y'}(t) R_x(t)##. Another example of "combining rotation around multiple axes" would be Euler angles, where a sequence of three angles each with an implied axis to rotate around is used to model any orientation of an object.

That said, rotations in 3 dimension are indeed a fair bit complex with a lot of detail rich formalism and no one should expect they can intuitively understand the complexities of such rotations based on, say, their experience with 2D rotations or linear translatory motion.
 
  • Like
Likes vanhees71 and PeroK
  • #44
DaveC426913 said:
Presumably, the calcs are describing a real world scenario, yes? That real world scenario must be fairly easy to describe. For example: to the question of does any solid rotating body always have a single axis of rotation, presumably there's a yes/no.
No, usually the momentary axis of rotation changes. That's always the case when ##\vec{\omega} \neq \text{const}.## For an elementary theory of the spinning top see

https://itp.uni-frankfurt.de/~hees/pf-faq/spinning-top.pdf
 
  • #45
OmCheeto said:
I don't understand any of it. Perhaps PF needs a level below "B" as apparently even high school maths is WAY over my head.

Anyone seen @Janus lately? I'd like him to render the dual axis spinning cylinder as it would work on the ISS. Clear, with just a single point being traced out.
I found a youtube video of a sphere with dual rotation, but it was solid with flowers, and my brain couldn't handle whether or not each point was actually traveling in a circle.


Okay, it took me a bit to work out a good way to to do it, and here's what I came up with.
I did two animations, as there are different ways to treat "rotating on two axis"

Both start from here:
cylinder1.png

A transparent cylinder(so nothing gets hidden during the rotations. A red sphere on the wall of the cylinder near an end and a white rod connecting this sphere to the long axis of the cylinder.

The first animation has the cylinder rotate on the y-axis (green) while it also rotates on its own long axis. (here, the blue line follows this long axis. The rotations are at a one to one ratio. It leaves a trail of spheres to show the whole path.

cylndr_rot1.gif
With the next one, the z axis (blue) remains fixed, while the cylinder rotates around this axis and the y axis.
cyldrrot2.gif
 
  • Like
Likes DrClaude, OmCheeto, vanhees71 and 1 other person
  • #46
OmCheeto said:
Anyone seen @Janus lately? I'd like him to render the dual axis spinning cylinder as it would work on the ISS.
Janus said:
Okay, it took me a bit to work out a good way to to do it, and here's what I came up with.
I did two animations, as there are different ways to treat "rotating on two axis"
Nice animations :smile:

Note however, if "as it would work on the ISS" refers to what should happen when an astronaut in free fall onboard ISS spins an object for the camera, i.e. when the object is put in torque free rotation, then note these animations do NOT show that. What they do appear to show is what the rotation would look like if a mechanical device via some bearings spins an object around two axis at once, e.g. using an intrinsic rotation sequence like in a gyroscope or an extrinsic sequence like when rotating a spherical shape using to orthogonal driver slip-wheels (think old mechanical mouse ball, but in reverse), then torques will in general be present at the bearings.

I also like to stress again, than when we in mechanics model the rotational state for a rigid object as rotation around a single vector as any given time this does not in general imply the rotation vector will be fixed over time in inertial space.

Also, all this does not mean we cannot make a simpler geometric model of rotation that involves a rotation sequence, like when the object is constrained to rotate around one or more axes by being rigidly attached to bearings. If we are only interested in the kinematics of the object in this case (i.e. don't care about forces and torques) then surely a "two axis rotation" model can be much easier to describe. This correspond to constraining the linear motion of an object to move in a circle without caring about the actual forces that is needed for this to happen.
 
  • Like
Likes OmCheeto
  • #47
Janus said:
cylndr_rot1.gif
OK, so it looks like, based on animation #2, that - notwithstanding all the geometry theory showing that an object seems to rotate about a single axis - the answer to the primary question is: a passenger inside such a vessel would indeed experience apparent gravity that changes in both direction and magnitude.

Does anyone disagree?I rode the zipper carnival ride once. I suspect it would feel much like that.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes vanhees71
  • #48
Filip Larsen said:
Nice animations :smile:

Note however, if "as it would work on the ISS" refers to what should happen when an astronaut in free fall onboard ISS spins an object for the camera, i.e. when the object is put in torque free rotation, then note these animations do NOT show that.
A camera spun on the ISS would tend to maintain its rotational axis relative to the stars. The ISS would also maintain its orientation relative to the stars if it wasn't for the fact that it has a system of gyroscopes designed to force it to keep one face pointing towards the Earth. Minis air drag, the camera would maintain its axis of rotation, while the ISS rotates around it. Introducing drag would (depending on the axis of rotation for the camera) cause a precession.
 
  • Like
Likes vanhees71
  • #49
Janus said:
The ISS would also maintain its orientation relative to the stars if...
Nitpick: Would it? In reality, I believe such oblong orbiting objects are subject to micro-tidal forces and will, in the longer term, align themselves with their long axis pointed Earthward, yes?
 
  • Like
Likes vanhees71
  • #50
DaveC426913 said:
Nitpick: Would it? In reality, I believe such oblong orbiting objects are subject to micro-tidal forces and will, in the longer term, align themselves with their long axis pointed Earthward, yes?
That is correct. Gravity gradient stabilization is useful for maintaining attitude in low Earth orbit and (if I recall correctly) was often used by the Space Shuttle. For objects with (significant) three-axial moments of inertia, maintaining a fixed attitude wrt. the Earth (aka local vertical, local horizon) or the stars that is not aligned with the principal axes will require constant torquing by some means. For completely passive attitude control (i.e. no control) one need to have the minor inertial axis (often the geometrically longest axis) in the local vertical.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes vanhees71

Similar threads

Back
Top