Awesome cloud chamber track (video)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around an observation made by a participant regarding an unusual track recorded in a cloud chamber experiment. The conversation explores the nature of the track, potential explanations for its appearance, and the setup used for the experiment, including the materials involved and environmental conditions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes an impressive track observed in a cloud chamber, noting its curvature and comparing it to typical straight tracks.
  • Another participant questions the possibility of a helical track and expresses uncertainty about its nature.
  • A participant references the sun's position at the time of observation and discusses the track's entry angle into the chamber.
  • Speculation arises about the track being a paint flake or another object rather than a massive particle, suggesting gravity could influence its arc.
  • One participant mentions that movement in the cloud chamber can lead to unusual track patterns.
  • Another participant discusses the potential for spiral motion and convective effects in cloud chambers to distort tracks, suggesting the track could be from energetic alphas or protons, possibly from cosmic rays.
  • A participant later concludes that the track was likely caused by a small piece of the glass dome chipping off, attributing it to internal stress during cooling.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various hypotheses regarding the nature of the track, with no consensus reached on its origin. Some propose it could be a particle track, while others suggest it may be an object like a paint flake. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the definitive cause of the observed track.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference specific conditions of the experiment, such as the materials used and the environmental setup, but there are limitations in the assumptions made about the track's nature and the lack of a controlled environment for definitive conclusions.

Ben123
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I recorded an amazing cloud chamber track tonight. It came from the direction of the sun, seemed like the angle was off slightly though. I was at 1200ft above sea level and it was 6 pm.
I will attach a picture of my setup and a video that is typical and then the video with the awesome track.
It was a simple cloud chamber on dry ice, with a balloon on top. It is lit internally with LED strips.
The awesome track appears to curve, it is a domed glass chamber though. The other tracks appear straight.
I had a thorium welding rod inside along with a piece of americium from a smoke detector.

What was that track!?

My setup:
IMG_20160326_174654173_zpsrrzq0y3a.jpg


typical tracks:

amazing track:

Ben
 
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A helical track? I have no idea how that could be.
 
Stellarium says at that time the sun would have been at 17.5deg above the horizon. The track in the video appears to enter the chamber at an upward angle and arc in the chamber downward. The angle I was referring to was the upward entry angle being off relative to the position of the sun.

I have no idea what it was. It was much thicker and longer than a typical alpha particle or any cosmic ray that I've ever seen in my little cloud chamber.
I'm happy just to have caught it on tape!

Ben
 
It almost appears to bounce when it gets to the far side of the chamber? Unless its a visual phenomena when it gets close to the LED light. I'm thinking maybe it was a paint flake or something flying off and it arcs that dramatically just from gravity? Seems more plausible than a massive particle that somehow curved.

Ben
 
If I move my cloud chamber or the supercooled air has substantial movement, I can get even weirder patterns than that.

Zz.
 
Looking at various tracks, there is clearly spiral motion in the cloud chamber, which combined with the normal convective motion seen in cloud chambers, could impose some odd distortions of the tracks. There is no mention of whether you are using the typical electrical field to stretch out the tracks and make them more visible. I've heard the occasional thick tracks such as this blamed on energetic alphas or on protons. The number of ions looks too high to be typical alphas from radon decay, so I would assume it is a proton track, ultimately derived from a cosmic ray. In a museum class cloud chamber of 30 cm x 30 cm area, I've seen a track like this visible about once per hour at sea level.
 
Wow, I forgot I posted this!

I eventually did figure out what the very large track was. It had to have been a small piece of the glass dome chipping off and flying through the chamber. There's a tiny piece missing directly on the bottom inside edge of the rim. It likely chipped while the glass was cooling. Internal stress perhaps.

Ben
 
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Likes   Reactions: Tom.G and berkeman
Ben123 said:
Wow, I forgot I posted this!

I eventually did figure out what the very large track was. It had to have been a small piece of the glass dome chipping off and flying through the chamber. There's a tiny piece missing directly on the bottom inside edge of the rim. It likely chipped while the glass was cooling. Internal stress perhaps.

Ben
Good bit of detective work there. A good resolution to the problem (probably).
 

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