Beam of particles shot through slits

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a physics problem involving a beam of positively charged particles passing through slits and interacting with electric fields. The participants explore concepts related to electric potential, electric fields, and particle dynamics within the context of charged particle beams.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Problem interpretation, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the conversion of electric potential energy to kinetic energy and the implications for calculating the speed of the particles. There are questions regarding the assumptions made about charge distribution and the application of Gauss' law to determine electric fields within and outside the beam. Some participants express confusion about integrating electric fields to find potentials and the implications of radial fields on particle motion.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants providing insights and corrections to each other's reasoning. There is a focus on clarifying the relationships between electric fields and potentials, as well as the dynamics of particle motion. Multiple interpretations of the problem are being explored, particularly regarding the assumptions about the beam's charge distribution and the resulting electric fields.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the importance of specific conditions, such as the potential being zero at the center of the beam and the need to consider the radial nature of the electric field. There are also constraints regarding the assumptions made about particle interactions and the simplifications used in calculations.

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Homework Statement


A beam of positively charged particles with radius ##R## (current ##I##) is shot from a region of potential ##-V## through a potential difference of ##+V## to a grounded plate. The beam passes through a slit on this plate then passes through another region of length ##L## meters and passes through a slit on a second plate before hitting a target. The proton density is ##p## protons per cubic meter.

a. What is the speed, ##v## of the particles when the beam reaches the first slit?

b. What is the electric field as a function of the radius within and outside the beam?

c. What is the electric potential as a function of the radius if the potential at the center of the beam is ##0##?

d. Due to particle interactions, some of beam diverges over the distance ##L##. If the radial field is constant and ##1/2## the maximum field, estimate how far a proton would move radially due to this field over the distance ##L##.

Homework Equations



##U=qV##
##K=\frac{1}{2}mv^2##
##\rho = \frac{Q}{Volume}##
##E=\frac{Q}{4\pi ε_0 R^2}##
## V =\frac{Q}{4 \pi ε_0 R}##

The Attempt at a Solution



a. The initial electric potential energy of the particles is converted to kinetic energy as the particles reach the first plate, so ##qΔV=\frac{1}{2}mv^2 \rightarrow v = \sqrt{\frac{2qV}{m}}##

b. The volume of the beam over the distance ##L## is ##V= (\pi)(R^2)(L)## so there are ##p\pi R^2 L## protons and the total charge is## (1.6*10^{-19})p\pi R^2 L = Q##. So the electric field within the beam at a distance ##r<R## is ##E=\frac{Qr}{4\pi ε_0 R^3}## and for ##r>R##, ##E=\frac{Q}{4\pi ε_0 r^2}##

c.For ##r<R##, the electric potential is ##V=\frac{Q}{4\pi ε_0 R}## and for ##r>R, V=\frac{Q}{4\pi ε_0 r}##

d. No idea
 
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Don't understand the step from b) answer to c) answer for r<R. Wasn't E the the divergence of V ?In the OP they state that V=0 at r = 0.
Your V for r<R comes from what assumption about the charge distribution in the cross section of the beam ?
Very quick reply, may need to edit some more...

The equations you give are for a point charge. The beam is probably more like a line charge!
 
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a) is ok.

b) you need the Area of the cylinder shell, length L and radius r.

in c), they wanted V =0 in the beam center (not at infinity) , so you integrate E from inside, outward.

d) how long (time) do the protons take to travel L?
where is the maximum E-field? (r=R) ... presume that ½ this value will provide constant acceleration outward.
 
Ok so this beam is essentially a cylinder of charge? But the circular faces aren't pierced since it's continuous.

For part B, with ##r## being the distance I use Gauss' law to calculate the electric field for ##r<R## so the enclosed charge ##q## is then ##Q\frac{\pi r^2 L}{\pi R^2 L} = Q\frac{r^2}{R^2}##, so using Gauss' law, ##E(2\pi rL)= \frac{Qr^2}{ε_0 R^2} \rightarrow E = \frac{Qr}{2\pi ε_0 R^2 L}## for ##r<R##. Thus for ##R<r, E(2\pi rL) = \frac{Q}{ε_0} \rightarrow E = \frac{Q}{2\pi ε_0 rL}## Where ##Q = \pi R^2 L(p)(1.6*10^{-19})## and the field is maximum when ##r=R##
 
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b) the E-field is radial outward, so NONE of it pierces either end-cap (r+L) →L; otherwise ok.
c) straightforward integral, now that E is right.
d) trying to use non-constant acceleration as the beam expands would be a nightmare.
so just use constant-acceleration approx (ok, if they're going fast)
 
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so for part C, I would integrate E from ##-\frac{L}{2}## to ##\frac{L}{2}##. Not going to show all the work but does this integral look correct: ##\int_{\frac{-L}{2}}^{\frac{L}{2}} \frac{Q}{2\pi ε_0 rL}\,dr## I'm just not sure if I'm using the correct equation for the electric field. since the field is zero at the center, I used the electric field for r>R

Then for part D, I calculated the acceleration from ##v^2 = 2aL \rightarrow a = \frac{qV}{mL}##. to calculate the distance a proton moves radially, do I need to relate this to the work done by the electric force?
 
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c) E is RADIAL, so integrate from r=0, outward. The center of the beam (r=0) has V=0.
what happened to the r on top? how did it arrive on the bottom ... there used to be a R² down there.
 
I see what you mean by radial but I have two different equations for electric field. So I need to integrate each one from 0 to R (electric field in the beam) and then from R to infinity (electric field outside beam)?
 
c) yes, integrate the Qr/R² from r=0 to r=R, then add to that the integral of Q/r from r=R.
d) no, qV/mL was the acceleration along the beam, before the grounded plate.
here we want the acceleration outward (radially) of a typical proton (say, at r=R/2),
while the beam drifts (constant speed, found in (a)) from ground-plate to beam-dump.
 
  • #10
OK so my two integrals are ##\int_0^R \frac{Qr}{2\pi ε_0 R^2 L} \,dr = \frac{Q}{4 \pi ε_0 L}## and ##\int_R^r \frac{Q}{2\pi ε_0 rL} \,dr = \frac{Q}{2\pi ε_0 L} \ln{\frac{r}{R}}##The second one somehow doesn't seem right though... since r > R, shouldn't potential decrease the farther you get and shouldn't my first equation imply V=0 at the center?

For part D ok so the radial acceleration would be from ##\frac{v^2}{r}##?
 
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  • #11
c) looks good. notice that a uniform field (|| plate capacitor) has V increase _linearly_ with distance.
d) the protons repel each other, by the E-field you calculated in b) ... F = eE causes mproton a
 
  • #12
Great, and for D, the displacement would then be calculated using ##v^2 = 2 a \Delta x## and the velocity from a)? Thanks so much for your help.
 
  • #13
no, the velocity you calculated in part (a) was along the length L; use it to find time-of-flight.
part (d) wants Δr = ½ a t²
 

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