Bell shrinking due to water pressure

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a physics problem involving the effect of water pressure on a bell submerged in the ocean. The bell, modeled as a sphere with a diameter of 3m, is analyzed to determine the change in diameter as it sinks to a depth of 10km, using concepts of pressure and bulk modulus.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants present calculations for pressure at depth, using the formula P=Po+\rhogh, and explore the relationship between pressure, volume change, and bulk modulus. There are discussions about the correct application of formulas for volume and radius changes, as well as the interpretation of the bulk modulus.

Discussion Status

Multiple participants are engaged in clarifying calculations and questioning the assumptions made in the problem. Some express confusion over the correct formulas to use, while others attempt to reconcile their results with the provided answer. There is no explicit consensus on the correct approach yet, but several lines of reasoning are being explored.

Contextual Notes

Participants are working under the constraints of a homework assignment, which may limit the information available and the methods they can use. There are indications of typographical errors in formulas and differing interpretations of the relationships between volume, pressure, and bulk modulus.

semc
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A bell of diameter 3m and bulk modulus of 14x1010N/m2 is toss into the ocean. By how much did the diameter decrease as it sank to a depth of 10km? The bell is assumed to be a sphere of diameter 3m.

Well o what i did was to calculate the pressure at the depth of 10km so P=Po+[tex]\rho[/tex]gh which gives me P=1.0135x105+1000x9.81x10000=9.82x107. Then Bulk modulus=[tex]\frac{P}{V/Vi}[/tex] where V is change in volume and Vi is the initial volume. This gives me change in diameter to be 0.267m however the answer provided is 0.722mm :cry: What is wrong ??
 
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Show your calculations.
 


Hello rl! My working is in the post? Okie i guess my post is too messy haha sorry about that.

Okie here is what i didFirst i calculate the pressure at the depth of 10 km including the atmospheric pressure Po which is taken to be 1.013x105 Pa.

P=Po + [tex]\rho[/tex]gh
P=1.013x105 + 1000 x 9.81 x 10000 = 9.82 x 107 Pa

So using the formula of bulk modulas,

Bulk modulas = [tex]\frac{P}{V/Vi}[/tex]
14x1010=[tex]\frac{P}{V/Vi}[/tex]

Since formula for both volume are the same V/Vi is reduced to r3/ri3 where r is the change in radius and ri is the initial radius.

Using 14x1010=[tex]\frac{P}{V/Vi}[/tex] and the P i found previously, i got the change in radius which is r to be 0.267m

Yup basically that's how i did it :biggrin:
 
Last edited:


Vi = 4/3*π*R^3
V' = 4/3*π*( R - ΔR )^3
V/Vi = (Vi - V')/Vi = [R^3 - (R-ΔR)^3]/R^3
Expand the brackets and simplify to find V/Vi.
 


I don't get it. If we are looking for the change in radius why i can't just find the change in volume and from there calculate the change in diameter?
 


Find the difference in original volume and compressed volume.
Change in volume = Bulk modulus*Pressure* Original volume.
 


I am assuming you meant Change in volume = Bulk modulus*Pressure*Original volume? How did you get this? From my working I get Change in volume =[tex]\frac{Pressure x Original volume}{Bulk Modulus}[/tex] ??
 


semc said:
I am assuming you meant Change in volume = Bulk modulus*Pressure*Original volume? How did you get this? From my working I get Change in volume =[tex]\frac{Pressure x Original volume}{Bulk Modulus}[/tex] ??
Yes. You are right. It is typo.
 


So you mean that's the way to do it? But my answer is different from the answer provided
 
  • #10


Show your calculations instead of answer.
 
  • #11


I am afraid i don't get you, this is my calculation and i can't figure out what's wrong with this and why do you keep asking me to post this?

[tex]\Delta[/tex]r3=[tex]\frac{9.82*10^7*1.5^3}{140*10^9}[/tex]
[tex]\Delta[/tex]r=0.1333m [tex]\Rightarrow[/tex] [tex]\Delta[/tex]d=0.2666m
 
  • #12


Sorry. Your calculation is not correct.
Vi = 4/3π*r^3
Vf = 4/3π*(r - Δr)^3
Chane in volume =ΔV = Vi - Vf = ...?
Then ΔV = P*Vi/B gives you Δr.
 
  • #13


ΔV = Vi - Vf
Δr = ri3-rf3
ΔV = P*Vi/B

Vi - Vf = (P/B)*Vi
[tex]\frac{4}{3}[/tex][tex]\Pi[/tex](ri3-rf3)=(P/B)[tex]\frac{4}{3}[/tex][tex]\Pi[/tex]ri3

(ri3-rf3)=(P/B)[/tex]ri3
Δr3 = (P/B)ri3
Δr3 = [tex] \frac{9.82*10^7*1.5^3}{140*10^9}[/tex]
Δr = 0.133 [tex] \Rightarrow[/tex] Δd=0.266

Whats wrong in my calculation?
 
  • #14


Δr = (ri - rf)
Δr^3 is not equal to ri^3 - rf^3
In algebra
(a^3 - b^3) = (a - b)(a^2 + ab + b^2)
 

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