Bernoulli's Equation With Losses

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of Bernoulli's equation in scenarios involving energy losses due to friction and the introduction of a pump in a fluid system. Participants explore how these factors influence the overall energy balance in an open channel system.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks confirmation on the correctness of applying Bernoulli's equation while factoring in energy losses due to friction.
  • Another participant states that the correctness of the application is contingent on a specific rate of flow, noting that losses decrease at a square rate as flow decreases, which affects the potential energy at point ##Z_2##.
  • A follow-up question is posed regarding the effect of adding a pump halfway along the pipe, with the participant expressing confusion about how to represent this in Bernoulli's equation.
  • Another participant explains that inserting a pump alters the dynamic balance of the system, suggesting that it can help overcome losses and potentially change the relative heights of reservoirs, while emphasizing the challenge of maintaining a consistent flow rate with a centrifugal pump.
  • There is a preference expressed for one equation over another in the context of incorporating the pump, although the specific equations are not detailed in the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the application of Bernoulli's equation with losses and the introduction of a pump, as multiple viewpoints and interpretations are presented.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved assumptions regarding the specific conditions under which Bernoulli's equation applies, particularly concerning flow rates and the effects of pumps on energy dynamics.

tomtomtom1
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TL;DR
Bernoulli's Equation With Losses
Hello community

I have been trying to get my head around Bernoulli's equation when factoring in energy loss due to friction.

I am trying to understand the concepts and i was hoping someone could remove some doubt from my mind by confirming the following:-

1) Would the following statement be correct:-

start1.PNG


Is the above correct?

2) If i wanted to apply this equation to the following open channel system:-

start 2.PNG
I am certain this is correct could really use someone with some experience to confirm this.

Thank you.
 
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That is correct only for a specific rate of flow.
If flow decreases some, losses (due to entrance into pipe, friction, change of direction, entrance into lower tank) decrease at a square rate and ##Z_2## increases accordingly.
 
Lnewqban said:
That is correct only for a specific rate of flow.
If flow decreases some, losses (due to entrance into pipe, friction, change of direction, entrance into lower tank) decrease at a square rate and ##Z_2## increases accordingly.
Thank you.
 
Lnewqban said:
That is correct only for a specific rate of flow.
If flow decreases some, losses (due to entrance into pipe, friction, change of direction, entrance into lower tank) decrease at a square rate and ##Z_2## increases accordingly.

Hi Lnewqban

If i can ask a follow on question which is this, if i had the same example but this time i added a pump half way along the pipe then would the gain in energy from the pipe be described in Bernoullis equation as:-

SENSE.png

This equation makes sense to me because I interpret this equation as saying that at Point 1 in the system the total energy is the sum of the Pressure + Kinetic + Potential Heads. As the fluid travels to Point 2 it losses some energy due to friction etc and gains some energy due to the pump.

Or would the following be correct:-

NOT.png
I struggle to understand this because at Point 1 there is no gain as the pump is located half way along the pipe but i have been told that this equation is the correct representation of Bernoullis equation when dealing with a pump.

Can you shed any light?

Thank you.
 
If you insert a pump halfway along the pipe, the whole dynamic balance that we had before changes.
A pump would help the flow overcome all the losses previously mentioned, reducing the difference between ##Z_1## and ##Z_2##, and even reverting the relative heights of the reservoirs (1 lower than 2), as long as we manage to keep the same rate of flow (which would be difficult to achieve for a centrifugal type of pump, since delivered pressure and flow are inter-dependent for it).
I would select your first equation over the second one.
 

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