Berthelot Equation 1: Solving for Variables

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SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the Berthelot equation and its derivation, specifically focusing on solving for the variables Vm and Vmc in terms of Pc and Tc. The participants confirm that the correct answer to the problem posed is 'c' and clarify the relationship between the Berthelot equation and the van der Waals equation. Key equations discussed include P = RT/(Vm - b) - a/Vm^2 and the derivation of constants a and b, which differ from van der Waals constants by a factor of Tc. The conversation highlights the mathematical intricacies involved in these thermodynamic equations.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of thermodynamic equations, specifically the Berthelot and van der Waals equations.
  • Familiarity with calculus, particularly partial derivatives and cubic equations.
  • Knowledge of the constants R, a, and b in the context of gas laws.
  • Proficiency in using LaTeX for mathematical notation.
NEXT STEPS
  • Study the derivation of the van der Waals equation and its relationship to the Berthelot equation.
  • Learn how to solve cubic equations in the context of thermodynamics.
  • Explore the implications of varying constants a and b in different gas models.
  • Practice using LaTeX for formatting complex mathematical equations.
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Students and professionals in chemistry and physics, particularly those focusing on thermodynamics and gas laws, as well as educators teaching these concepts.

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1. The problem statement, all variabl
The attempt at a solution

 
Last edited:
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The answer is obviously 'c'.
 
I'm sorry. I had some problems using the Latex editor. It's my first time using it. I did post earlier about proton affinity though. I haven't gotten a heads up from anyone about it but I think my reasoning is correct. I really wish that there was something like PF when I was in school.
Oh, and the correct answer to the above problem is c.
 
What I was trying to ask was how does the author Klotz get from a to b?
a
(P + a/Vm^2)( Vm - b) = RT

b
P Vm = RT [1 + 9/128 P/Pc * Tc / T (1 - 6 T^2c / T^2)
 
See below please
 
Last edited:
(P + a/V2m)(Vm - b) = RT

P = RT/( Vm - b) - a/Vm^2

∂Vm/∂ Pc = 0 = -RTc/( Vmc - b)^2 + 2a/TcVmc^3
∂Vm2/∂2 Pc = 0 = 2RTc/( Vmc - b)^3 - 6a/TcVmc^4


b = Vmc /3 ; 2a = 9RTc/4Vmc^2 * TcVmc^3

a = 9/8 RTc^2 Vmc = 3PcVmc^2 Tc


PcTcVmc^2 = 3/2R Tc^2 Vmc - a

4 PcTcVmc^2 = 3/2R Tc^2 Vmc

3 R Tc/8Pc = Vmc = 3b
b = R Tc/8Pc
4/3 a = 3/2 RTc^2 Vmc
a = 3/4 * 3/2 * 3/8 R2 Tc^3 / Pc
a = 27/64 R^2 Tc^3 / Pc ; b = R Tc/8Pc ; R = 8Pc Vmc/3 Tc
PVmc = RT [1+1/8 PTc /PcT - 9/8 Tc Vmc /T^2 Vm + 3/8 Tc^2 Vmc^2 /T^2 Vm^2 ]

How do I get Vm and Vmc in terms of Pc & Tc? Solve a cubic in terms of Vm?

P Vm = RT[1 + 9/128 P/Pc * Tc/T (1 - 6 Tc^2 /T^2)]
 
(a) is the van der Waals equation and (b) is the Berthelot equation. They arise from two different models, and I don't believe they are functionally identical (I could be wrong here, I haven't tried to check). Is there a reason that you believe one is derivable from the other?
 
Hello sir. Thank you for your time and attention on these matters. Weell, a should actually be

(P + a/TVm^2)(Vm - b) = RT

which is a form of the Berthelot equation. The development and derivations for a, b, R and the form of the eq. which contains Vmc and Vm are the same as the original post.

P = RT/(Vm - b) - a/TVm^2

∂Vm/∂ Pc = 0 = -RTc/( Vmc - b)^2 + 2a/TcVmc^3
∂Vm2/∂2 Pc = 0 = 2RTc/( Vmc - b)^3 - 6a/TcVmc^4


b = Vmc /3 ;
2a = 9RTc/4Vmc^2 * TcVmc^3

a = 9/8 RTc^2 Vmc = 3PcVmc^2 Tc

The constant a differs from the van der Waals constant value by a factor of Tc.

PcTcVmc^2 = 3/2R Tc^2 Vmc - a

4 PcTcVmc^2 = 3/2R Tc^2 Vmc
3 R Tc/8Pc = Vmc = 3b

b = R Tc/8Pc
which is the same as the van der Waals value.

4/3 a = 3/2 RTc^2 Vmc
a = 3/4 * 3/2 * 3/8 R2 Tc^3 / Pc

a = 27/64 R^2 Tc^3 / Pc ; b = R Tc/8Pc ; R = 8Pc Vmc/3 Tc

R and b are the same as for the van der Waals eq. The constant a varies only by a factor of Tc.


PVmc = RT [1+1/8 PTc /PcT - 9/8 Tc Vmc /T^2 Vm + 3/8 Tc^2 Vmc^2 /T^2 Vm^2 ]

So how do I get Vm and Vmc in terms of Pc & Tc? Solve a cubic in terms of Vm?

P Vm = RT[1 + 9/128 P/Pc * Tc/T (1 - 6 Tc^2 /T^2)]
 

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