Best way to produce 1 million volts dc

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the feasibility and methods for producing a direct current (DC) power source capable of generating 1 million volts, with a focus on applications such as coil guns and propulsion systems. Participants explore various approaches, safety concerns, and technical challenges associated with high voltage generation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses a desire to build a 1 million volt DC power source for a coil gun, seeking suggestions on whether to use a high voltage capacitor or a capacitor bank.
  • Another participant suggests two methods for achieving high voltage: the Van de Graaff generator and the Cockcroft-Walton generator, providing links for further reading.
  • A participant emphasizes the need for a constant DC power supply without waiting for capacitors to charge, raising concerns about the dangers of working with high voltage.
  • One suggestion involves using a parallel plate capacitor with ultra-pure water as a dielectric to achieve high voltage, though it does not reach 1 million volts.
  • Concerns are raised about the power requirements for maintaining 1 million volts, with one participant questioning the feasibility of drawing such power from standard wall outlets.
  • Several participants discuss the potential use of Tesla coils and superconducting materials in achieving high voltage, with one participant proposing a design involving an aluminum ring and iron bolted to it for propulsion.
  • Another participant mentions that 1 million volts may be excessive for a coil gun, suggesting that a few thousand volts would suffice.
  • Questions arise about the possibility of increasing current in a Cockcroft-Walton generator using tunnel diodes, with multiple participants expressing interest in this idea.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the methods and safety of generating 1 million volts, with no consensus on the best approach or the necessity of such high voltage for the intended applications. Concerns about safety and practicality are highlighted, but opinions on the technical feasibility vary.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the dangers associated with high voltage, including the potential for lethal charges even with small capacitance. There are also discussions about the limitations of certain methods and the assumptions involved in achieving high voltage outputs.

Who May Find This Useful

Individuals interested in high voltage engineering, coil gun design, propulsion systems, and the theoretical aspects of electrical power generation may find this discussion relevant.

reddevil2576
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I'm wanting to build a dc power source of 1 million volts more would be nice but ill start with a million and work my way up from there. Any suggestions would be helpufull. Is it possible to build a 1 million volt capacitor or should i build a capacitor bank to smooth out the ac current after its rectified or do you have a better suggestion for me. I'm wanting to build a coil gun with 1 million volts and not have to wait for capacitors to charge all the time just want to have a high voltage supply and fire it whenever. Any help will be greatly appreciated.
 
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There are two basic methods to get 1 million volts DC. One way is to use the Van de Graaff approach with a moving belt. An example of this are the Emporer tandems (made by High Voltage Engineering), which have exceeded 10 million volts terminal voltage. See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_de_Graaff_generator
The other way is to use the Cockroft-Walton (or Marx generator) approach with a stack of high voltage diodes and capacitors for voltage multiplication. See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cockcroft-Walton_generator
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marx_generator
 
i don't know much about those I'm looking for a constant dc power supply though not something i have to wait to charge back up or anything just something that's always there.
 
reddevil2576 said:
i don't know much about those I'm looking for a constant dc power supply though not something i have to wait to charge back up or anything just something that's always there.

It's not a good idea to work with high voltage if you don't know much about it, let alone work with 1 million volts.

A rule of thumb is 10,000 volts per 1 cm of spark. At 1 million volts you will get 1 meter long sparks shooting around.

Also, regardless what way you will generate high voltage, there will always be some capacitance involved. From basic physics, the energy stored in a capacitor is proportional to voltage squared. At 1 million volts, even a relatively small internal capacitance can unload a lethal charge.
 
Here is a rather simple way to produce a high voltage, but not 1 million volts.

1) Assemble a parallel plate capacitor in a tank with ultra pure water as dielectric.
2) Charge up the plate to a high voltage.
3) Drain out the water.

This produces a very high voltage by decreasing the dielectric constant of the charged capacitor by a factor of about 80.
 
Wouldn't you be drawing a ridiculous amount of power to achieve this. I would think a steady 1 million volts ps would require more then an average wall output.
 
i don't know but that's what i need to do check out my other one talking about superconductors and high voltage it talks about what i want to do down in a reply i left. i have an idea to change the world I'm going to build it but i need your guys help to get it done. i don't care what power it takes or what i have to do to do it I am going to do it. if you have any ideas it would be greatly appreciated.
 
Not 1MV but they look neat. One clames to be 50KV at 5ma.
http://www.amazing1.com/hv-dc-power-supplies.htm"
 
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I have an old (40 years?) Mark Ten B CD (capacitor discharge) igniton system that can generate roughly 30 kV from less than 1 amp at 12 volts. This circuit charges a capacitor to about 300 to 400 volts using a dc-dc converter, and dumps it into the primary of a 12-volt automotive ignition coil when an electronic switch is triggered. I get 2 cm sparks (2.5 on a good day) out of it. For spark voltages over 100 kV, I think a Tesla coil would be good choice. I had a high school classmate who built a small one (about 1 meter high) for a class project (with the teacher's help).
 
  • #10
I seem to recall that air at STP can withstand about 30KV per centimeter. One million volts would require a smooth conducting ball of two foot diameter to be charged to 1MV without arcing to infinity.
 
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  • #11
reddevil2576 said:
I'm wanting to build a dc power source of 1 million volts more would be nice but ill start with a million and work my way up from there. Any suggestions would be helpufull. Is it possible to build a 1 million volt capacitor or should i build a capacitor bank to smooth out the ac current after its rectified or do you have a better suggestion for me. I'm wanting to build a coil gun with 1 million volts and not have to wait for capacitors to charge all the time just want to have a high voltage supply and fire it whenever. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

What'cha plannin' on shooting this coil gan at?
 
  • #12
i'm not planning on shooting any coil gun well maybe one or two just for fun. What I'm wanting to do with it though is i have an idea for a propulsion system using this. i talk about it in my other post of superconductors and high voltage
 
  • #13
Bob S said:
Here is a rather simple way to produce a high voltage, but not 1 million volts.

1) Assemble a parallel plate capacitor in a tank with ultra pure water as dielectric.
2) Charge up the plate to a high voltage.
3) Drain out the water.

This produces a very high voltage by decreasing the dielectric constant of the charged capacitor by a factor of about 80.

Are you in essence storing the potential energy that the water had from gravity into additional energy per a charge as your dielectric changes from water to air?
 
  • #14
Go fly a kite in a thunderstorm.
 
  • #15
1 million volts is way too much for a coil gun except maybe if that coil gun is as big as a house.
You only need a few thousand volts. You can build a power supply from a tv flyback transformer.
 
  • #16
Put 250 of http://www.theneonstore.com/p-932-4k-ventex-12-vdc-neon-power-supply.aspx" in series.
 
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  • #17
Is there any way to increase the current of a Cockroft-Walton generator by adding tunnel diodes? I heard from someone years ago that a tunnel diode can increase current.
 
  • #18
Newtype said:
Is there any way to increase the current of a Cockroft-Walton generator by adding tunnel diodes? I heard from someone years ago that a tunnel diode can increase current.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunnel_diode
 
  • #19
I need the coils to have 1 million volts. I need a really powerful coil gun. But its not to shoot a projectile I want to but it on an aluminum ring with iron bolted to it in certain spots and make it spin as fast as I can. Will it eventually make it spin as fast as the magnetic field is generated. Thats why I want a steady supply and not something that you have to charge for one firing. I think a tesla coil might work can you wire that up to something. My idea is to use superconducting wire for the coils and some thick Mylar insulation. Go to superconductors.com and type 2 superconductors and check out the top one. Supposedly its superconducting at -40 degrees Fahrenheit. And put 1 million volts through those.
 
  • #20
reddevil2576 said:
I need the coils to have 1 million volts. I need a really powerful coil gun. But its not to shoot a projectile I want to but it on an aluminum ring with iron bolted to it in certain spots and make it spin as fast as I can. Will it eventually make it spin as fast as the magnetic field is generated. Thats why I want a steady supply and not something that you have to charge for one firing. I think a tesla coil might work can you wire that up to something. My idea is to use superconducting wire for the coils and some thick Mylar insulation. Go to superconductors.com and type 2 superconductors and check out the top one. Supposedly its superconducting at -40 degrees Fahrenheit. And put 1 million volts through those.

Don't know if this will help, but if you have a little time to look at the patents of a man that contributed so much in the early days, there is lots of mind stimulating drawings and wording in the body of his patents.

http://issuu.com/ericm814/docs/complete_patents_nikola_tesla
 
  • #21
So basically you want to build an electric motor that spins really fast.
Trust me, you don't need 1 million volts for that. You could even do it with just 12 V.
You don't need superconductors either.
What you need however are good bearings and the ring needs to be perfectly centered.
Why don't you just buy a motor and attach the ring to it?
 
  • #22
Alternatively, to generate 1MV, arrange to have 120 people in a large circle, on a dry day, each with a rubber comb.
 
  • #23
Well I need powerful electromagnets as powerful as i can get for my idea to work. I want the million volts I don't want to drop the power. I'm going to have 3 coils spinning the ring and 1 acting against that. And I need the force of the ring to overpower that one coil. maybe have to have another coil on so it passes through it. And exerts force on the electromagnet that is going against it as it goes through but if it does lower the speed of the other rings I need the other coils strong enough to spin it up to its top speed as fast as they can. Do you think its possible to get 1/4 of lightspeed out of this ring?
 
  • #24
reddevil2576 said:
Well I need powerful electromagnets as powerful as i can get for my idea to work. I want the million volts I don't want to drop the power. I'm going to have 3 coils spinning the ring and 1 acting against that. And I need the force of the ring to overpower that one coil. maybe have to have another coil on so it passes through it. And exerts force on the electromagnet that is going against it as it goes through but if it does lower the speed of the other rings I need the other coils strong enough to spin it up to its top speed as fast as they can. Do you think its possible to get 1/4 of lightspeed out of this ring?

I think you need to get a grasp of just how fast 1/4 lightspeed is. An electron will move about 3" in one nano second.(1 Billionth of a second)
Now go to a good source on spinning things, such as flywheels and motor armatures and study about how many RPM they can spin before flying to pieces (keep in mind that the hotter they get, the quicker they fly apart).

Just hope I didn't misunderstand your thoughts on what's spinning.:bugeye::smile:

Ron
 
  • #25
No I understand and I'm well aware of that hopefully the engine stays together. But its just going to be a metal ring that's spinning that's the only moving part period. It isn't like an engine where the pistons are reciprocating. A rotary engine only spins one direction and it can handle a lot of rpms but I'm only going to have one moving piece hopefully it works.
 
  • #26
reddevil2576 said:
No I understand and I'm well aware of that hopefully the engine stays together. But its just going to be a metal ring that's spinning that's the only moving part period. It isn't like an engine where the pistons are reciprocating. A rotary engine only spins one direction and it can handle a lot of rpms but I'm only going to have one moving piece hopefully it works.

Well best wishes and be carefull:smile:

I would like to share an event with you, something I did in my younger days, (lucky to be alive today) I had cleaned a ball bearing with solvent and was using compressed air to blow it dry, not knowing or thinking, I started to spin it with the air pressure and just before it flew in all directions, there was a distortion of the outer ring that was plain to see.
I have never calculated what the speed might have been, it was about 2" OD, the air pressure was about 110 PSI, the memory and sound of steel balls hitting things all around the shop, will never fade.

As Astronuc stated in another thread, "street smart" can be good. Sometime it can come at a high price.:eek:

Ron
 
  • #27
reddevil2576 said:
Do you think its possible to get 1/4 of lightspeed out of this ring?

If you spin a metal ring up to 1/4th the speed of light, it's kinetic energy would be about as high as the energy of a nuclear bomb.
Even if you only have one moving part the ring will probably rip itself apart at the speed of sound which is 1 million times slower then the speed of light.
What do you want to build anyway? A time machine? A free energy machine?
In any case, you need to brush up your knowledge of physics first.
Accelerating a metal ring to 1/4th the speed of light is not even remotely doable with current technology.
You could however use 1 million volts to bring subatomic particles close to the speed of light. That's called a particle accelerator.
 
  • #28
Somewhere in the distant past (1950s) Sci Am had an article on spinning up bits of metal, somewhat smaller than a pinhead, suspended in a magnetic field. In a good vacuum one should be able to feed it enough alternating field until it disintigrates...

In a not-so-good vacuum you could rather watch it vaporize.
 
  • #29
What I am trying to do is create linear force from centrifugal force. everyone says its impossible to me on here but if you got that right spinning fast enough and had a strong electromagnet on one side of the ring that could lift like 25,000 pounds and yet the ring wouldn't slow down cause it had so much force and if i had 3 of them in a triangle object get it to hover and do all the maneuvers of a ufo and I don't think it would have a top speed if you manage to get the ship to light speed really big if there the right would be moving the speed of the ship and the speed of the ring spinning where the electromagnet to get lift would be it would always be faster than u and able to accelerate you faster I believe.
 
  • #30
reddevil2576 said:
What I am trying to do is create linear force from centrifugal force. everyone says its impossible to me on here but if you got that right spinning fast enough and had a strong electromagnet on one side of the ring that could lift like 25,000 pounds and yet the ring wouldn't slow down cause it had so much force and if i had 3 of them in a triangle object get it to hover and do all the maneuvers of a ufo and I don't think it would have a top speed if you manage to get the ship to light speed really big if there the right would be moving the speed of the ship and the speed of the ring spinning where the electromagnet to get lift would be it would always be faster than u and able to accelerate you faster I believe.

Think I hear a clicking sound, Oops it might be a lock.
 

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