BJT emitter degeneration problem

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a homework problem involving a BJT circuit, specifically focusing on calculating resistor values and analyzing the effects of emitter degeneration on collector current. Participants explore the implications of varying parameters and the assumptions necessary for their calculations.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant calculates R1 using KCL and arrives at a value of 22.75K, based on given parameters including Ic and Vbe.
  • Another participant questions the value of Vbe used, suggesting that a value of 0.6V or 0.7V might be more appropriate for low currents, while acknowledging that the difference may not be significant.
  • There is a discussion about the change in Re by 5% and its impact on Vre, with one participant expressing uncertainty about using the old Ie for calculations.
  • Participants discuss the necessity of assuming a value for Vbe when calculating Ib, with one suggesting that it is reasonable to assume the previous Vbe value, while another emphasizes the importance of checking against worked examples.
  • Concerns are raised about the accuracy of the assumption that Vbe remains constant despite changes in other parameters, with suggestions to verify this through the Vbe log equation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing opinions on the appropriate value for Vbe and the implications of assuming it remains constant. There is no consensus on the best approach to take for the calculations, indicating ongoing debate and uncertainty.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the potential impact of resistor tolerances and the need for assumptions in their calculations, highlighting the complexity of the circuit analysis involved.

likephysics
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Homework Statement


a)Find R1
b)Find the change in IC if Re varies by 5%.
Given:
Ic = 0.25mA
β=100
(see attached ckt)

Homework Equations





The Attempt at a Solution



Ic=0.25mA, Ib=0.0025mA
Vbe = 0.6956V
Ie=Ic+Ib = 0.2525mA
Re = 200*0.2525 = 50.5mV

Found R1 by applying KCL at base.
(Vcc-Vbe-Vre)/R1 = (Vbe+Vre)/10k + Ib
R1=22.75K

For part b) Re be +5% = 210 ohms
Vre = 210*Ie= 53mV
Is this even correct, I took the old Ie. What next?
I can't use any equations having Vbe or Ib since they change with increase in Vre.
 

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likephysics said:
Ic=0.25mA, Ib=0.0025mA
Vbe = 0.6956V
Ie=Ic+Ib = 0.2525mA
Re = 200*0.2525 = 50.5mV

Found R1 by applying KCL at base.
(Vcc-Vbe-Vre)/R1 = (Vbe+Vre)/10k + Ib
R1=22.75K
How did you determine Vbe = 0.6956V? For such low currents, I would have used 0.6v. It's simply a case of going with 0.7 or 0.6, usually. But the difference is not very important.

For part b) Re be +5% = 210 ohms
Vre = 210*Ie= 53mV
Is this even correct, I took the old Ie.
Well, you can't use the old IE. You know that is going to change.
You know everything about the circuit biasing except IB. So form a couple of equations in a similar way to how you did before and solve for IB. This time you know R1, and the only unknown is IB.
 
NascentOxygen said:
How did you determine Vbe = 0.6956V? For such low currents, I would have used 0.6v. It's simply a case of going with 0.7 or 0.6, usually. But the difference is not very important.
Ic is given, so I used Vbe = Vt ln (Ic/Is).

Well, you can't use the old IE. You know that is going to change.
You know everything about the circuit biasing except IB. So form a couple of equations in a similar way to how you did before and solve for IB. This time you know R1, and the only unknown is IB.

Well, to find Ib, I have to assume Vbe. can I assume the old Vbe (0.695)?
 
likephysics said:
Well, to find Ib, I have to assume Vbe. can I assume the old Vbe (0.695)?
I think it is perfectly reasonable to make that assumption, but you should be guided by worked examples that you have done in class. The usual justification is that the circuit is going to be constructed using preferred value resistors, anyway, and on top of this, they typically have a 5% tolerance. (Yes, I did look askance at the 3kΩ collector resistor, and wonder about preferred values ...)

If you do make the assumption that Vbe barely changes (to avoid having to use numerical techniques to arrive at the 'solution'), you can always go back to the Vbe log equation and demonstrate that the revised value of IC makes little difference to Vbe.

At such low currents, I still think 0.7v is a bit high, maybe 0.65 is more realistic.
 

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