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Black hole expansion in the LHC?

  1. Aug 22, 2015 #1
    Greetings,
    I am new to this forum and would like to present a discussion.

    If a miniscule black hole is created in the LHC. Is it probable the LHC is capable of creating more than one black hole during a single event collision?

    Considering fact and theory provided by credible research. Could it be possible for these micro black holes to merge and grow?

    Perpetual expansion, not only through a merger, but also become larger through information it has collected? Let's say from the data received from the collision itself?
     
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  3. Aug 22, 2015 #2

    mfb

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    No. Physicists hope to produce a few (tens to thousands) black holes in something like 1015 collisions. Also, the current lower limits on the minimal black hole mass (based on previous collisions) tell us there is not enough total energy for two black holes in the same collision.

    Even if the LHC had enough energy it would not make a difference. The total black hole mass, independent of the production process, is limited by the collision energy of the protons, and it is tiny - even if the whole collision energy would be used for the black hole it would evaporate immediately.
    That does not make sense.
     
  4. Aug 22, 2015 #3
    Thank you for your reply MFB...

    Providing the previous attempts at LHC, Gravity's Rainbow model suggests they will need to increase the energy level from 5.3 TeV, to anywhere between 9.5 TeV in six dimensions - 11.9 TeV in 10 dimensions.

    If the parameters of Gravity's Rainbow are accurate, LHC would have to modify the geometry of space and time near the Planck scale.

    If this theory is accurate, it is said, "mini black holes have a minimum radius, below which they cannot shrink."

    Therfore the mini black hole would not simplyevaporate.
     
  5. Aug 23, 2015 #4
    Based off of theorized data, 2 miniscule black holes would merge causing the singularity to increase in size, so Yes.
     
  6. Aug 23, 2015 #5

    mfb

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    What is a "Gravity's Rainbow model"? There is a book with this name but that is unrelated fiction.

    The LHC collisions happen at 13 TeV this year.
     
  7. Aug 23, 2015 #6

    Vanadium 50

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    Reference please?
     
  8. Aug 23, 2015 #7
  9. Aug 23, 2015 #8

    mfb

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    Forum threads are not proper references, but I think "black holes can merge in general" is well established. For the LHC it would not matter.
     
  10. Aug 23, 2015 #9
    "Gravity's Rainbow model" is a theoretical study attempting to debunk Einstein's theory of "Space Time." The theory seeks to prove: space is infinite, with no beginning or end. Therefore, no "Big Bang.

    The LHC will be seeking evidence of the rainbow model in their next collision.
    http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/bl...n-collider-rainbow-gravity-parallel-universes
     
  11. Aug 23, 2015 #10

    Vanadium 50

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    Yes, in general they can merge. But in the LHC you would need to make two from the same collision (already incredibly rare) and have them last long enough to merge (unlikely) and be produced with low relative angular momentum (also unlikely). I don't know of any prediction, but it must be incredibly unlikely/
     
  12. Aug 23, 2015 #11

    Vanadium 50

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    Scientists use different language. They say "explore alternatives to General Relativity". "Debunking Einstein" is how crackpots talk, which is why you won't find such language in Ali, Faizal and Khalil. Furthermore, they build on Einstein rather than replace it: this is an attempt to generalize doubly special relativity to include gravity.
     
  13. Aug 23, 2015 #12

    mfb

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    Okay, I found a reference for that model.
    It is not.
    Well, not really. The experiments look for signs of microscopic black holes. If they are found, then it might be possible to rule out multiple ideas how gravity and quantum mechanics might be unified. Some theories (probably more than one) will survive those tests. It is unclear which theories will be better.
    Microscopic black holes at the LHC are quite exotic, and this particular model is even more exotic. "The LHC will be seeking evidence for this particular model" is a bit far-fetched.

    To make it worse, the inventors of this idea predict that the LHC energy is not sufficient.
     
  14. Aug 25, 2015 #13
    In future, could you please use the correct phrase 'based on' ,which actually makes sense.

    Things are not 'based off' anything, and definitely not 'based off of'.
     
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