Black Hole Information Loss Question

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of Hawking Radiation and its implications for black holes, particularly focusing on the mechanisms of particle interactions near the event horizon and the potential effects on black hole mass. Participants explore theoretical aspects, challenges, and interpretations related to black hole information loss and quantum fluctuations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that Hawking Radiation occurs when a virtual particle pair is created near the event horizon, with one particle escaping and the other falling into the black hole.
  • Others argue that the escape of either the particle or the anti-particle does not affect the overall mass of the black hole, as the escaping particle carries some mass away.
  • A later reply questions how the escape of an anti-particle could reduce the mass of a black hole, suggesting that annihilation within the event horizon does not lead to a mass reduction.
  • Some participants suggest that the particle falling into the black hole could have negative mass, which they claim is not problematic for short-lived particles.
  • There is a discussion about the nature of quantum fluctuations and whether they can be accurately described in terms of particles, with some noting that the original derivation of Hawking Radiation does not rely on virtual particles.
  • Concerns are raised about the accumulation of mass by black holes, with some suggesting that they would continue to grow unless they are in a region with limited matter to consume.
  • One participant clarifies that black holes do not have gravitational effects that differ from other massive bodies at a distance, addressing a common misconception about their nature.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the mechanisms of Hawking Radiation and the implications for black hole mass. The discussion remains unresolved, with no consensus on the interpretations of particle behavior or the effects of quantum fluctuations.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in understanding the processes involved, including the ambiguous nature of particle definitions in curved spacetime and the complexities of quantum field interactions near black holes.

  • #61
Haha Damn lmao that would suck good thing they don't. So basically the tachyon is really just a solution to an obsolete bosonic string theory?
 
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  • #62
Alex1 said:
Haha Damn lmao that would suck good thing they don't. So basically the tachyon is really just a solution to an obsolete bosonic string theory?
No, it is a straightforward mathematical solution to the equations of special relativity. The notion of imaginary mass is not, however, as far fetched as it may appear. Imaginary currents are routinely considered in electrical circuits and the standard model of particle physics allow the Higgs boson, under certain conditions, to have imaginary mass. The biggest problem with tachyons entails logical parardoxes which can arise, such as the Tolman Paradox. These are normally considered mathematical artifacts with no physical analogue [i.e., unphysical solutions].
 
  • #63
Alex1 said:
Haha Damn lmao that would suck good thing they don't. So basically the tachyon is really just a solution to an obsolete bosonic string theory?

Like Chronos said, the tachyon isn't just a solution for bosonic string theories, but a general solution in relativistic quantum field theory. Tachyons themselves don't pose too much of a problem, but they imply an unstable vacuum, which would be catastrophic. Systems will prefer to be in states of lower potential energy. An example of this is a pendulum in a gravitational field. If you stand the pendulum up so that the mass is on top, then it has a lot of potential energy - slightly disturbing it will cause it to move to a lower potential energy state, e.g. fall over so that it is in a normal position.

If tachyons existed, then negative energy states would be possible. If so, then the vacuum wouldn't be the lowest possible energy state - and once you allow one negative energy state, you essentially allow then all, all the way down to infinity. So, the vacuum will rapidly decay into this state, which we obviously don't observe (you wouldn't be here if this happened). So, tachyons don't exist.
 
  • #64
Alright thanks man.
 
  • #65
Thanks man, that gives me a better understanding of a tachyon.
 

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