Black Hole: Knock on the horizon

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SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the implications of the Schwarzschild metric in General Relativity, particularly regarding the concept of the event horizon and the meaning of the coordinate R. The participants explore the mathematical representation of distance in a curved spacetime, emphasizing that traditional Newtonian physics fails to adequately describe phenomena near a black hole. Key points include the behavior of the Schwarzschild radius (R_S) and the interpretation of the r coordinate, which is not a simple spatial distance but rather an areal radius that defines spherical surfaces in spacetime.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of General Relativity concepts, specifically the Schwarzschild metric.
  • Familiarity with spacetime diagrams and the significance of event horizons.
  • Knowledge of vector mathematics and coordinate transformations in curved spaces.
  • Basic grasp of the differences between Newtonian physics and relativistic physics.
NEXT STEPS
  • Study the implications of the Schwarzschild radius (R_S) in black hole physics.
  • Learn about Kruskal coordinates and their advantages over Schwarzschild coordinates.
  • Explore the mathematical foundations of spacetime metrics and their physical interpretations.
  • Investigate the concept of singularities in General Relativity and their implications for spacetime structure.
USEFUL FOR

Physicists, astrophysicists, and students of General Relativity who seek to deepen their understanding of black hole dynamics and the mathematical frameworks that describe them.

  • #31
Dale said:
Are you thinking that second term evaluates to 0 or otherwise goes away? Or did I or Mathematica make a mistake somewhere?
No, you're right. I did think the log term went away, but I'd misread the result on my tiny phone screen.
 
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  • #32
Ibix said:
I'd misread the result on my tiny phone screen.
That has happened to me more times than I would care to admit.
 
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  • #33
Dale said:
I just tried to work this out myself and got a slightly different answer. So I have $$g_{rr}=\frac{1}{1-\frac{R_S}{r}}$$ which integrates (according to Mathematica) to $$\int_{R_S}^R \sqrt{g_{rr}} \ dr = \sqrt{R \left(R-R_S\right)}+\frac{1}{2} R_S \log \left(\frac{-R_S+2 \sqrt{R \left(R-R_S\right)}+2
R}{R_S}\right) $$
Are you thinking that second term evaluates to 0 or otherwise goes away? Or did I or Mathematica make a mistake somewhere?
@mef to illustrate the issue about the coordinate system, I performed the same calculation in isotropic coordinates. We have $$g_{rr}=\frac{\left(2 r+\frac{R_S}{2}\right){}^4}{16 r^4}$$ which integrates to $$\int_{R_S}^R \sqrt{g_{rr}} \ dr = R-R_S+\frac{\left(R-R_S\right) R_S}{16 R}+\frac{1}{2} R_S \log \left(\frac{R}{R_S}\right)$$

Note that the results are different, but still finite.
 
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  • #34
PeterDonis said:
If you mean a spacelike 3-surface formed by a continuous series of such spacelike 2-spheres, yes, those also exist inside the horizon. They just aren't surfaces of constant Schwarzschild ##t## coordinate, since those are timelike (more precisely, they have one timelike and 2 spacelike linearly independent tangent vectors) inside the horizon.
Since the ##t## coordinate is spacelike inside the horizon and the Schwarzschild metric in Schwarzschild coordinate chart is diagonal, then any 3-surface of constant coordinate time ##t= \text{const}## inside the horizon cannot be spacelike (there are not 3 linearly independent spacelike 4-vectors part of the orthogonal complement of a spacelike vector in the tangent space at each point).
 
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  • #35
cianfa72 said:
Since the ##t## coordinate is spacelike inside the horizon and the Schwarzschild metric in Schwarzschild coordinate chart is diagonal, then any 3-surface of constant coordinate time ##t= \text{const}## inside the horizon cannot be spacelike
Yes, you are agreeing with what I said.
 
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