Bogolubov Transformations: How to Normalize the Coefficients?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the normalization of coefficients in Bogolubov transformations within the context of curved spacetime. Participants explore the mathematical consistency of different expressions for normalization and the implications of inner product properties on these transformations.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant outlines the transformation between two sets of modes and presents an equation for normalization, questioning its consistency with a reference from Birrell and Davies.
  • Another participant raises a question about the nature of the modes, suggesting they are complex.
  • A participant points out inconsistencies in the equations presented, suggesting a need to verify the terms involved.
  • It is noted that the inner product is linear on one side and antilinear on the other, which affects how coefficients are treated in the equations.
  • A participant acknowledges the need to adjust their earlier normalization result based on the properties of the inner product.
  • One participant proposes that the conditions on the coefficients alpha and beta could lead to equivalence between the two normalization results, but expresses uncertainty about the Hermitian nature of alpha and the symmetry/antisymmetry of beta.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the normalization of coefficients and the implications of inner product properties. There is no consensus on the correct normalization or the conditions required for equivalence between different formulations.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the dependence on definitions and properties of inner products, as well as the need for careful consideration of the coefficients involved in the transformations. Some mathematical steps remain unresolved.

LAHLH
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Hi,

So in a general curved spacetime we have no preferred choice of modes and the Bogolubov transformations allow us to convert between the fields expanded in the various complete sets of modes.

If we have one set of modes [tex]f_{i}[/tex] and another [tex]g_i[/tex] both normalized like normalized as [tex](f_i,f_j)=\delta_{ij}[/tex] and [tex](f^{*}_i,f^{*}_j)=-\delta_{ij}[/tex], then we can tranform between the modes as:

[tex]f_i=\sum_j \left(\alpha^{*}_{ji}g_j-\beta_{ji}g^{*}_j\right)[/tex], where the Bogolubov coeffs are given as [tex]\alpha_{ij}=(g_i,f_j)[/tex] and [tex]\beta_{ij}=-(g_i,f^{*}_j)[/tex]

Thus it follows that

[tex]\delta_{ij}=(f_i,f_j)=\left(\sum_m \left(\alpha^{*}_{mi}g_m-\beta_{mi}g^{*}_m\right),\sum_n \left(\alpha^{*}_{nj}g_n-\beta_{nj}g^{*}_n\right) \right)[/tex]

expanding this and using the normalization of the g modes [tex](g_i,g_j)=\delta_{ij}[/tex] and [tex](g^{*}_i,g^{*}_j)=-\delta_{ij}[/tex], others zero:

[tex]\delta_{ij}= \sum_m \left( \alpha^{*}_{mi}\alpha^{*}_{mj}-\beta_{mi}\beta_{mj} \right)[/tex]

Giving the normalization of the coefficients. However this answer differs to the one quoted in say Birrell and Davies:

[tex]\delta_{ij}= \sum_m \left( \alpha_{im}\alpha^{*}_{jm}-\beta_{im}\beta^{*}_{jk} \right)[/tex]

Just wondering if anyone can spot how to get this normalization?

thanks a lot
 
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Aren't the modes f_i complex?
 
LAHLH said:
Hi,

So in a general curved spacetime we have no preferred choice of modes and the Bogolubov transformations allow us to convert between the fields expanded in the various complete sets of modes.

If we have one set of modes [tex]f_{i}[/tex] and another [tex]g_i[/tex] both normalized like normalized as [tex](f_i,f_j)=\delta_{ij}[/tex] and [tex](f^{*}_i,f^{*}_j)=-\delta_{ij}[/tex], then we can tranform between the modes as:

[tex]f_i=\sum_j \left(\alpha^{*}_{ji}g_j-\beta_{ji}g^{*}_j\right)[/tex], where the Bogolubov coeffs are given as [tex]\alpha_{ij}=(g_i,f_j)[/tex] and [tex]\beta_{ij}=-(g_i,f^{*}_j)[/tex]

These equations are inconsistent, since

[tex]( g_i , f_j ) = \sum_k \alpha^{*}_{kj}(g_i,g_k) = \alpha^*_{ij}.[/tex]

You should double-check the other term as well.
 
The inner product is linear on one side and antilinear on the other, so when you pull the coefficients out, one side should get complex conjugated.
 
Bill_K said:
The inner product is linear on one side and antilinear on the other, so when you pull the coefficients out, one side should get complex conjugated.

Oh yes, that makes sense from the definition of the inner product here.

So I should have really got:

[tex] \delta_{ij}= \sum_m \left( \alpha^{*}_{mi}\alpha_{mj}-\beta_{mi}\beta^{*}_{mj} \right)[/tex]

comparing to the B&D result :

[tex] \delta_{ij}= \sum_m \left( \alpha_{im}\alpha^{*}_{jm}-\beta_{im}\beta^{*}_{jm} \right)[/tex]

These would be equivalent if [tex]\alpha^{*}_{mi}=\alpha_{im}[/tex]

But this doesn't seem to hold from the inner product and the definition of alpha:

[tex]\alpha_{im} \equiv (g_i,f_m) =-i\int\, \mathrm{d}x (g_i \nabla f^{*}_m-f^{*}_m\nabla g_i)[/tex]

and
[tex]\alpha_{mi} \equiv (g_m,f_i) =-i\int\, \mathrm{d}x (g_m \nabla f^{*}_i-f^{*}_i\nabla g_m)[/tex]

so

[tex]\alpha^{*}_{mi} =+i\int\, \mathrm{d}x (g^{*}_m \nabla f_i-f_i\nabla g^{*}_m)[/tex]
 
fzero said:
These equations are inconsistent, since

[tex]( g_i , f_j ) = \sum_k \alpha^{*}_{kj}(g_i,g_k) = \alpha^*_{ij}.[/tex]

You should double-check the other term as well.


Taking into account the anti-linearity in the second arg of inner product as Bill_K noted, means the equations are consistent also.
 
one also would require [tex]\beta_{im}=\pm \beta_{mi}[/tex].

I started with the [tex]\delta_{ij}=(g_i,g_j)[/tex] and found that it led me to the Birrel and Davies result. So I think my earlier result must hold with these conditions on alpha and beta being used to show the two normalizations are in fact equivalent but I can't see how the alpha coeffs are Hermitian and beta symmetric/antisymmetric.
 

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