Bohr model for electron energy states

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the relevance and application of the Bohr model and Bohr-Sommerfeld quantization in modern physics, particularly in the context of electron energy states and semiclassical physics. Participants explore both historical significance and contemporary uses in various fields.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Historical
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants acknowledge that the energy levels predicted by the Bohr model remain reasonable approximations for hydrogen-like atoms.
  • One participant argues that the Bohr-Sommerfeld quantization should not be taught in introductory physics due to its inaccuracies and the potential confusion it causes when transitioning to modern quantum theory.
  • Others counter that the Bohr-Sommerfeld quantization has practical applications in semiclassical physics, particularly in the spectroscopy of large molecules where more accurate methods are computationally intensive.
  • Several references are provided to support the continued relevance of Bohr-Sommerfeld quantization in areas such as meson spectra in quark models and black hole analysis.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the educational value of the Bohr model and Bohr-Sommerfeld quantization, with some advocating for its historical context and others arguing against its use in teaching due to its limitations. The discussion remains unresolved regarding its appropriateness in modern physics education.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in the applicability of the Bohr model and Bohr-Sommerfeld quantization, particularly in terms of their quantitative accuracy and qualitative implications in modern quantum mechanics.

Iceking20
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What parts of bohr model for electron energy states are still valid?
I know that we use quantum mechanic and wave function to calculate probability of finding electrons but is there anything valid about bohr model that we still use it?
 
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The energy levels are still reasonable approximations for hydrogen-like atoms.
 
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Where is the Bohr-Sommerfeld quantization still used? I consider it interesting to understand the historical development of modern quantum mechanics, but it should not be taught anymore in introductory physics lectures on quantum mechanics since it's not only quantitatively wrong but provides utterly wrong qualitative pictures which you have to eliminate from your thinking again when learning the modern theory. The most difficult part of learning modern QT is to unlearn classical concepts, and thus it's good to omit at least classical pictures where they are really failing, and this is precisely the case with the Bohr-Sommerfeld quantization prescription.
 
vanhees71 said:
Where is the Bohr-Sommerfeld quantization still used?
A lot of useful semiclassical physics is done based on Bohr-Sommerfeld quantization. In particular, modern versions of it are indispensable in the spectroscopy of large molecules, where the more accurate ab initio methods become numerically too demanding.
  • Norcliffe, A., & Percival, I. C., Correspondence identities II. The Bohr-Sommerfeld identity for the hydrogen atom. Journal of Physics B: Atomic and Molecular Physics, 1 (1968), 784.
  • Colwell, S. M., & Percival, I. C., The semiclassical determination of potential surfaces from observed spectra. I. Chemical Physics, 75 (1983), 215-223.
It is also used for meson spectra in constituent quark models: https://arxiv.org/pdf/hep-ph/0412170
and for the analysis of black holes: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1204.1699
to mention just a few more recent uses.
 
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vanhees71 said:
Where is the Bohr-Sommerfeld quantization still used?
A. Neumaier said:
A lot of useful semiclassical physics is done based on Bohr-Sommerfeld quantization. In particular, modern versions of it are indispensable in the spectroscopy of large molecules, where the more accurate ab initio methods become numerically too demanding.
  • Norcliffe, A., & Percival, I. C., Correspondence identities II. The Bohr-Sommerfeld identity for the hydrogen atom. Journal of Physics B: Atomic and Molecular Physics, 1 (1968), 784.
  • Colwell, S. M., & Percival, I. C., The semiclassical determination of potential surfaces from observed spectra. I. Chemical Physics, 75 (1983), 215-223.
It is also used for meson spectra in constituent quark models: https://arxiv.org/pdf/hep-ph/0412170
and for the analysis of black holes: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1204.1699
to mention just a few more recent uses.
One more older but interesting survey paper:
  • M.V. Berry & K.E. Mount, Semiclassical approximations in wave mechanics. Reports on Progress in Physics, 35 (1972), 315.
 
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