Boltzman Equation: Exploring the Probability of Atomic Levels in Stars

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of the Boltzmann equation to the probability of atomic energy levels in stars, particularly in the context of high temperatures leading to ionization. Participants explore the implications of temperature on atomic transitions and the population of energy levels.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether the Boltzmann equation implies equal probability of finding atoms in every energy level when the temperature is high (KT >> E_i).
  • Another participant asserts that equal probability occurs for upper and lower levels of a specific transition, but only under certain conditions where ionization is not a factor.
  • A different participant suggests that at extremely high temperatures, the ionization of atoms prevents them from being found in neutral atomic states, thus complicating the application of the Boltzmann equation.
  • It is proposed that if ions are present, they may be found in all excitation states equally, but this is contingent on the presence of neutral atoms, which is unlikely at high temperatures due to ionization.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of the Boltzmann equation at high temperatures, particularly regarding ionization and the population of atomic states. There is no consensus on how to interpret the equation in these extreme conditions.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations related to the assumptions of the Boltzmann equation, particularly in high-temperature environments where ionization significantly alters the expected population of atomic states.

shirin
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Hi
When the temprature of star increases so that KT>>E_i(E_i as the energy of level i), Boltzmann equation states that the probability of finding atoms in every level is equal. Does this really happen or some other facts may prohibit this?
 
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Yes, that really happens all the time, if by "every level" you just mean "both the upper and lower levels of the transition that has energy Ei". It almost sounds like you are asking if the atom is as likely to be found in any possible level for that atom, and that only happens when all the energies are << kT, including the ionization energy. When that's true, there's very little chance of finding that atom in the first place-- it will be ionized.

If your question is just about the upper and lower levels of some particular transition in an atom that takes much more energy than that to ionize, then it happens all the time that the atom will be almost equally likely to be in the upper or lower level. For example, much of the radio spectrum deals with observing transitions whose energies are much less than kT, and as a result, the lower and upper level populations are very close, and this produces a great deal of stimulated emission and completely alters the nature of the radio brightness.

By the way, some imagine that when Ei << kT, we should expect the upper level population to be greater than the lower, but you are correct that this is not the case.
 
So assume that a star is just composed of neutral Helium atoms. As the temprature of the star T goes to infinity, Boltzmann equation states that the probability of finding helium atoms in each level of transition is equal, but in fact the temprature is so high that the atoms are ionized and we can't find them in tranition states of netral helium,because they are ions. Did I understand it correctly?
Now can we say that according to Boltzmann equation these ions may be found in all of excitation states equally?
 
Yes, they'll be in all their excitation states equally, if there were atoms in excitation states, which there would actually be very few of, because the vast majority would be ionized. Indeed, the reason they'd be ionized is that the ionization states count among the equally-populated excitation states, and there are vastly more of them, so the atom ionizes.
 
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