Boundary condition for electrostatics problem - found issue?

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SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the boundary conditions for an electrostatics problem involving different permittivities ($$\epsilon_a, \epsilon_b, \epsilon_c$$). The user identifies a contradiction arising from the assumption that the normal component of the electric displacement field ($$\vec{D}$$) is continuous at $$x=0$$, leading to the conclusion that $$\epsilon_b$$ must equal $$\epsilon_c$$, which contradicts the initial premise. The conversation also highlights the challenges of implementing numerical methods, particularly the potential for ill-conditioning in the matrix system ($$Ax=b$$) when $$\epsilon_b \neq \epsilon_c$$, and suggests using the GMRES method for iterative solutions.

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  • Understanding of electrostatics and boundary conditions
  • Familiarity with scalar potential and Laplace's equation ($$\nabla^2 \phi = 0$$)
  • Knowledge of numerical methods for solving linear systems, particularly iterative methods
  • Experience with finite difference methods and matrix conditioning
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  • Research the implications of boundary conditions in electrostatics problems
  • Learn about the GMRES (Generalized Minimal Residual) method for solving linear systems
  • Explore techniques for assessing matrix conditioning and stability in numerical methods
  • Investigate finite difference methods and their application in electrostatics simulations
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Researchers, physicists, and engineers working on electrostatics problems, particularly those utilizing numerical methods for solving boundary value problems in materials with varying properties.

vogtster
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Hey everyone

Just a picture of my configuration.

YlCEu.png


The assumption here is $$\epsilon_a,\epsilon_b,\epsilon_c$$ are different from one another. Really the interest of this problem is to find the scalar potential $$\phi$$, such that $$\nabla^2 \phi = 0$$.

So now my question, about jump conditions,
Surface at $$y=0$$ has tangent $$\vec{E}$$ continous, thus
\begin{align}
-\hat{x} \cdot \nabla \phi_a = -\hat{x} \cdot \nabla \phi_b \\
-\hat{x} \cdot \nabla \phi_a = -\hat{x} \cdot \nabla \phi_c \\
\end{align}

However if we look at $$x=0$$ then normal $$\vec{D}$$ is continuous thus

\begin{align}
-\epsilon_b \hat{x} \cdot \nabla \phi_b = - \epsilon_c \hat{x} \cdot \nabla \phi_c \\
\end{align}

From our relation above this implies that $$\epsilon_b=\epsilon_c$$, which we made no such assumption. So this looks like a contradiction to me.

Can someone tell me where I have gone wrong?

Thank you!
 
Last edited:
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Mathematically, there is also the solution ##\hat{x} \cdot \nabla \phi_a = 0##.

There might a smooth solution that has a violation of the boundary conditions in an arbitrarily small region where the three materials cross, and the actual fields then will depend on the non-exact material structure there.
 
mfb said:
Mathematically, there is also the solution ##\hat{x} \cdot \nabla \phi_a = 0##.

There might a smooth solution that has a violation of the boundary conditions in an arbitrarily small region where the three materials cross, and the actual fields then will depend on the non-exact material structure there.

Hey mfb,

Thanks for the response. I guess I'm in the game of solving these problems by numerical methods. I suppose my worry right now is if I implement this with $$\epsilon_b \neq \epsilon_c$$, then there is an underlying inconsistency in the system. You know how I can get around this?
 
You can check if an iterative solution converges to something stable.
 
mfb said:
You can check if an iterative solution converges to something stable.

Hi mfb,

I do not believe it would converge, or at the very best converge slowly, the underlying assumption would be that the matrix is well conditioned. Let's assume we did some sort of finite differencing and obtained an $$Ax=b$$ system. This inconsistency in the equations, will cause $$A^{-1}$$ not to exist analytically. Thus numerically, $$A$$ will be ill-conditioned, so iterative linear methods will converge slowly in order to find a $$x$$ such that $$Ax=b$$. Do you think GMRES, would be the best hope to find something reasonable?
 
Last edited:
I would put it in a program and see what happens.
 
Most likely this can only be answered by an "old timer". I am making measurements on an uA709 op amp (metal can). I would like to calculate the frequency rolloff curves (I can measure them). I assume the compensation is via the miller effect. To do the calculations I would need to know the gain of the transistors and the effective resistance seen at the compensation terminals, not including the values I put there. Anyone know those values?

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