Buran-Energia. The Russian Space Shuttle system

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the Buran-Energia system, a Russian space shuttle program, and its context within the broader landscape of aerospace competition during the 1980s and 1990s. Participants share insights on the Buran's history, its similarities to the NASA Space Shuttle, and comparisons with other Soviet aerospace projects, including the Tu-144 supersonic transport aircraft.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Historical

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants share videos related to the Buran program, expressing fascination with its design and history.
  • One participant notes that the Buran completed an unmanned flight in 1988 before its cancellation in 1993, and mentions its destruction in a hangar collapse in 2002.
  • Another participant reflects on the lack of competition in the aerospace sector during the Buran's operational period, suggesting that the Soviet Union's economic struggles limited its capabilities.
  • There are discussions about the Tu-144, with some participants noting its similarities to the Concorde and its operational challenges, including reliability issues and fatal crashes.
  • Some participants speculate on the origins of the Tu-144's design, suggesting it may have been influenced by technical details from the Concorde.
  • One participant mentions a collaboration between NASA and the modified Tu-144D, known as Tu-144LL, for high-speed research, highlighting the irony of Soviet engineering contributing to American aerospace goals.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of competition in aerospace during the 1980s, with some arguing that competition was not surprising given the historical context, while others find it odd. There is no consensus on the implications of the Buran program or the Tu-144's legacy.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various historical events and technical details, but there are unresolved questions regarding the reliability and market viability of the Tu-144, as well as the broader implications of the Buran program's cancellation.

MTd2
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okay...??
 
That was back in the 80's and 90's. There really wasn't much competition.

The Buran completed one unmanned spaceflight in 1988 before its cancellation in 1993. The Buran spacecraft was similar in appearance to the NASA Space Shuttle, and was destroyed in the Buran hangar collapse on May 12, 2002.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buran_program

I seem to remember that aerospace folks in the US were impressed, but we also knew that the Soviet Union was in dire economic straits and slowly breaking up, which it did in 1991. Russia could not alone sustain the program.
 
Yes, I know. But I meant any competition, instead of no competition. I wasn't even aware that Buran had a test. I never saw them. But the video is so cool and this is why I posted them.
 
The Russians had built their version of the Concorde, too. No idea how it fared in tests.
 
The Russians also built the TU-4 long-range heavy bombers after three B-29s fell into their hands during WWII. The copies did not have the quality or reliability of the Boeings, but they were good enough to force the US to upgrade it's early-warning systems.
 
EnumaElish said:
The Russians had built their version of the Concorde, too. No idea how it fared in tests.
That's the TU-144.

The Tupolev Tu-144 (NATO name: "Charger") was the world's first supersonic transport aircraft (SST, with its first flight preceding that of Concorde), constructed under the direction of the Soviet Tupolev design bureau headed by Alexei Tupolev.
. . . .
Although the Tu-144 was technically broadly comparable to Concorde, while Concorde was at least operated (mostly) profitably for 25 years, the Tu-144 lacked a passenger market within the Soviet Union. As the Tu-144 proved unreliable and suffered two fatal crashes this precluded it selling in other countries, and service was halted after only about 100 scheduled flights.
. . . .
At the Paris Air Show on 3 June 1973, the development program of the Tu-144 suffered severely when the first Tu-144S production airliner (reg 77102) crashed.

While in the air, the Tu-144 underwent a violent downwards maneuver. Trying to pull out of the subsequent dive, the Tu-144 broke up and crashed, destroying 15 houses and killing all six people on board the Tu-144 and eight more on the ground.
. . . .
Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-144

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x48srk_tu-144-russian-supersonic-jet-crash_extreme

One can search images on Google with "tu-144" or "tu-144 crash" for more information.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
MTd2 said:
Despite bing similar or not to the space shuttle, it is so odd seeing competition on space exploration...

The Russians were in the space race from the start - why was competition in the 1980's "odd" or surprising?
 
WhoWee said:
The Russians were in the space race from the start - why was competition in the 1980's "odd" or surprising?
Not surprising or odd. The Russians had a head-start on the US, as anybody older than me should know. Of course, very few people on this forum are older than me, so most will have to Google on Sputnik, Laika, etc.
 
  • #10
EnumaElish said:
The Russians had built their version of the Concorde, too. No idea how it fared in tests.
And there are quite a number of people that believe that the Russians copied the Concorde by getting a hold of technical details of the Concorde. NASA did end up purchasing one and actually flying it for some tests. I don't know what happened to their copy.
 
  • #11
FredGarvin said:
And there are quite a number of people that believe that the Russians copied the Concorde by getting a hold of technical details of the Concorde. NASA did end up purchasing one and actually flying it for some tests. I don't know what happened to their copy.
More on the TU-144LL.

The Second Rise: Tu-144LL

In 1994, then Vice President A Gore and Prime Minister V Chernomyrdin signed a contract which allowed NASA to use a modified Tu-144D as part of their high-speed research programme. The ultimate goal was to produce a next-generation SST, which, while carrying three times the passenger payload of both Concorde and Tu-144, and being able to cover twice the range, should only demand a fare 20% higher than that for subsonic aircraft journeys.

Therefore, the Tu-144LL was born*. A truly international collaboration, since Boeing, Tupolev and others were actively involved in the project. It is quite ironic that the former pride of Soviet engineering helped to revive the legacy of America's supersonic dreams.

. . . .
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A2818640

*LL stands for Летающая Лаборатория (Letayushchaya Laboratoriya) - Flying Laboratory.


Apparently - the Tu-144LL is currently offered for sale by the American company Tejavia. I think that is potentially risky.
 

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