Bush's timing on sounding Bird Flu alarms a little coincidental?

[pattylou]

Is it just me, or is Bush's timing on sounding Bird Flu alarms a little coincidental?

"Bait and switch" and "distraction" and "Politics of fear" and "plummeting approval" all come to mind.

http://www.islandpacket.com/24hour/front/story/2861218p-11522755c.html

Good God. Could the timing be any more obvious?

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Doesn't this sort of thing happen all the time with all sorts of politicians?

 

[wasteofo2]

Well, it is just about to be flu season, and people should be somewhat worried I suppose.

It'd be a lot more suspicious if he did this in the spring or something.

 

[pattylou]

Well, it is just about to be flu season, and people should be somewhat worried I suppose.

I haven't seen any reports indicating that a mutation to a more humanly-contagious form is more likely to happen during flu season.

 

[pattylou]

Doesn't this sort of thing happen all the time with all sorts of politicians?

Does this excuse the behavior? If people are being baited, wouldn't they like to be aware of it?

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Does this excuse the behavior? If people are being baited, wouldn't they like to be aware of it?

Personally I just take the propaganda for granted. I don't see anyone out there in the political arena genuinely saying that they are done with it. I have become jaded and don't listen to politicians any more because I want to hear facts instead of spin and propaganda.
The day someone says "Hey check this guy out! He's completely honest and tells it how it is!" I just may start paying attention. Until then I'll stick to reading or listening to the news.

 

[The Smoking Man]

Personally I just take the propaganda for granted. I don't see anyone out there in the political arena genuinely saying that they are done with it. I have become jaded and don't listen to politicians any more because I want to hear facts instead of spin and propaganda.
The day someone says "Hey check this guy out! He's completely honest and tells it how it is!" I just may start paying attention. Until then I'll stick to reading or listening to the news.

Unfortunately, that would be political suicide in the first 5 minutes.

 

[Pengwuino]

I believe the NY Times is reporting that Canadian health officials have detected the virus in their country. I wonder why you haven't criticized every other politician who has done this... well I know i know, i don't actually wonder, i already know... its just a hypothetical question.

If he didn't say anything, I'm utterly convinced you would say "Why hasn't Bush said anything about the flu?"

 

[SOS2008]

I feel Bush needs to address pandemic disease and preparedness. Recent increase in outbreaks justifies the timing, IMO. I’m glad to see his focus move off of military quarantine to vaccinations, though I question the plan on this, and how comprehensive his plan is. I assume there is review of medical facilities, etc., but haven’t heard.

As for timing, I find his appeasement of the religious right on his SC nomination more questionable. An all out civil brawl is almost as good as a war to distract people from poor performance and/or scandals.

 

[deckart]

As much as I support Bush, I am seeing a pattern here:

When things get tough, start spending money.

But, it could turn out to be one of those things that we sure would hate to not have in place if it becomes needed. He has been burned enough for not being prepared for crap.

 

[pattylou]

I believe the NY Times is reporting that Canadian health officials have detected the virus in their country.

The report I heard has said that it likely isn't H5N1.

I wonder why you haven't criticized every other politician who has done this...

?? Done what? Asked for 7.1 billion dollars immediately following White House scandal, for an unrelated threat that has held roughly steady over the last year? As far as I have seen, every other country has been talking about bird flu ever since it was found in Asia in early 2004. Bush hasn't, until today. In other words, they weren't spinning it, and he is using it to bait you.

If he didn't say anything, I'm utterly convinced you would say "Why hasn't Bush said anything about the flu?"

As bird flu has been in the news ever since the SARS scare, one would think I have had plenty of time to say such a thing, and yet I haven't.

But as soon as Bush proposed this bird flu scare, I spoke out - and the reason I speak out is because of the timing. He is playing the American people. It's unconscionable. Wake up.

Please don't put words in my mouth. I certainly don't do that to you. I expect an apology.

 

[pattylou]

Recent increase in outbreaks justifies the timing, IMO.

What outbreaks? I don't believe the frequency of human cases is increasing over a year ago, for example.

Bird flu hit the scene spring of 2004. Human cases occur with steady regularity. If there has been a recent increase, can you point me towards towards a reference demonstrating such?

 

[pattylou]

Also, the scientists have maintained all along that they will not be able to predict when bird flu will mutate. It could take years.

Bush is making a gamble, and if nothing else it might be interesting to see how it plays out in the next election cycle or two.

 

[pattylou]

As much as I support Bush, I am seeing a pattern here:
When things get tough, start spending money.

Hallelujah! We agree. :) I'd say when things get rough, he also sounds terror alarms. To boost support.

Remember how many code orange/yellow/red/alerrts we had in the months before the elections? We have only had one scare since then, in New York (and was there even a terror alert issued?)

But, it could turn out to be one of those things that we sure would hate to not have in place if it becomes needed.

Agreed. Just like the possibility of human - driving of climate change. Be a shame to realize too late that we didn't prevent it when we could.

 

[The Smoking Man]

What outbreaks? I don't believe the frequency of human cases is increasing over a year ago, for example.
Bird flu hit the scene spring of 2004. Human cases occur with steady regularity. If there has been a recent increase, can you point me towards towards a reference demonstrating such?

I think that one problem is that nobody is using the right terms.

H5N1
Bird Flu
SARS

So what are we talking about folks?

Just becasue I have a dead canary on my doorstep doesn't mean I am going to get sick.

 

[Echo 6 Sierra]

Still, I'd feel a lot better if the Surgeon General were the one letting us know what's going on instead of, you know.

 

[The Smoking Man]

Still, I'd feel a lot better if the Surgeon General were the one letting us know what's going on instead of, you know.

Point taken ... where is he anyway?

You'd think this was within his scope and yet you have Bush flapping his gums as if he knew something about it.

Probably find that the Surgeon General is like the Head of FEMA and once read the back of a Contac-C box.

They're going to drop Halls lozenges and Vicks inhalers into Montana.

 

[SOS2008]

As much as I support Bush, I am seeing a pattern here:
When things get tough, start spending money.

But, it could turn out to be one of those things that we sure would hate to not have in place if it becomes needed. He has been burned enough for not being prepared for crap.

Let’s not forget there already was a shortage of flu vaccine during Bush’s watch. And yes, he seems to throw money (yours and mine) at problems to make himself look better.

What outbreaks? I don't believe the frequency of human cases is increasing over a year ago, for example.

Bird flu hit the scene spring of 2004. Human cases occur with steady regularity. If there has been a recent increase, can you point me towards towards a reference demonstrating such?

Outbreak was probably not the best word—I think there have been 65 deaths so far—mostly in Asia. How many total cases in how many countries in what time frame is a good question.

In this evening’s news, there are some in the media who feel Bush is capitalizing on the situation. The speech is old news in that congress already addressed this last week, and the word pandemic was repeated numerous times in his speech. So though concern about pandemics is legitimate, it appears there is some continuation of the fear-mongering MO of this administration.

 

[pattylou]

I think that one problem is that nobody is using the right terms.
H5N1
Bird Flu
SARS
So what are we talking about folks?
Just becasue I have a dead canary on my doorstep doesn't mean I am going to get sick.

As I understand it, H and N refer to particular proteins on the Avian Influenza A virus. The lethal form of avian influenza (bird flu) has the version of H that is called 5, and the version of N that is called 1. So, that strain is called H5N1.

The Canadian birds that appeared healthy and yet had an influenza infection, did not appear to be carrying H5N1, but rather a different influenza.

There are other bird flus, which are of less concern. Presumably there are *lots* of other bird flus. Viral "species" outnumber bacterial species, by boatloads. - to give you an idea of how many viruses we live with on a daily basis.

The virus that caused the Spanish Flu Pandemic of 1918 shares genetic similarity to H5N1 Avian Influenza.

~~~~~~

SARS (Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome) is also caused by a virus - but a completely different one. In this case, the disease is caused by a Coronavirus (a different viral family, from Flu.)

There have been over 8,000 reported cases of SARS, and 774 fatalities. There have been close to 200 cases in the US alone.

http://www.wadsworth.org/resnres/bios/wentworth.htm

These numbers indicate that SARS is a greater health threat than Bird Flu. Although the mortality is "only" around 10%, it spreads from person to person with fair ease.

 

[Gokul43201]

Unfortunately, that would be political suicide in the first 5 minutes.

<offtopic>It wasn't, for one Paul Wellstone. </offtopic>

 

[MaxS]

Personally I just take the propaganda for granted. I don't see anyone out there in the political arena genuinely saying that they are done with it. I have become jaded and don't listen to politicians any more because I want to hear facts instead of spin and propaganda.
The day someone says "Hey check this guy out! He's completely honest and tells it how it is!" I just may start paying attention. Until then I'll stick to reading or listening to the news.

his name is howard dean

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

his name is howard dean

Stop the Spin
Whatever happens today, one thing is clear: we need a change in our nation's capital.

The culture of corruption in Washington is toxic. Already, the White House has started its spin machine, throwing out bogus talking points about "an overzealous prosecutor" and "the criminalization of politics." You know what? We need to quit playing that game.

On Wednesday, November 2, join DNC Chair Howard Dean and DFA Chair Jim Dean on a conference call to discuss how to change the culture of corruption in Washington. Sign up on DFA-Link for a conference call event in your area:




It grows clearer by the day that the President's advisors were willing to do anything to quiet opposition to the war—even if it meant breaking laws designed to protect our national security. And it leaves us questioning: what other deceptions and mistruths did they tell to lead us into war? If we want the truth, we need to demand answers.

Join the conference call with Governor Dean and Jim Dean next week. If you can't find an event in your area, invite some friends over and join the conference call from home:

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Tom Hughes
Democracy for America

From his own site...
Is this some how not just the bunch of rhetoric it looks like?

 

[MaxS]

Uh actually no.. in case you haven't noticed (which wouldn't be at all surprising) the entire republican administration IS rather rife with corruption, and the Bush administration DID lead us into a war of aggression based entirely on lies. In fact a few of the many players are now going down. So no its not just rhetoric its the truth.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Has anyone noticed that in the case of bird flu and Katrina, Bush keeps trying to increase the role of the military here in the US?

 

[SOS2008]

Has anyone noticed that in the case of bird flu and Katrina, Bush keeps trying to increase the role of the military here in the US?

I brought this up some time ago in another thread. It always feels like he’s looking for a reason for martial law, which is fascist. Now where was that thread about the Patriot Act?…

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Uh actually no.. in case you haven't noticed (which wouldn't be at all surprising) the entire republican administration IS rather rife with corruption, and the Bush administration DID lead us into a war of aggression based entirely on lies. In fact a few of the many players are now going down. So no its not just rhetoric its the truth.

Lol... Facts are true. Rhetoric is just rhetoric.
If Bush gets up and says "Hey! There's this Bird Flu thing going on and we need to do something about it!" without telling me any facts... it's rhetoric. What he says may very well be true but really he's just making a show and it's not worth my time.
That piece I quoted wasn't by your man Dean but the pieces I read by him were all in the same vein. It's rhetoric and not worth my time.

 

[MaxS]

Lol... Facts are true. Rhetoric is just rhetoric.
If Bush gets up and says "Hey! There's this Bird Flu thing going on and we need to do something about it!" without telling me any facts... it's rhetoric. What he says may very well be true but really he's just making a show and it's not worth my time.
That piece I quoted wasn't by your man Dean but the pieces I read by him were all in the same vein. It's rhetoric and not worth my time.

Uh... just because YOU say its rhetoric doesn't make it any less factual.

Bush DID say that SH had WMD's (remember that?) and that we had conclusive evidence he was planning to use them against us (remember that?) and that's why we're in a war there right now (you noticed right?)

Not to mention of course that those wmd's were largely our gift to saddam... not to mention that saddam was in power because the U.S. put him there...

Not to mention that the vice president's company is in charge of reconstruction in iraq..

Not to mention an enormous host of other things...

So, when Howard Dean, or his website administrator in this case I guess, says that the Bush administration is corrupt, it is not RHETORIC it is the TRUTH.

And if YOU think the truth isn't worth your time, then its no surprise you're supporting fascists.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

And if YOU think the truth isn't worth your time, then its no surprise you're supporting fascists.

Lol... you are really absolutely hilarious. Sorry you were banned but hopefully it's only a temp.
If you hadn't noticed before you came into this thread I was saying that I don't listen to any politicians rhetoric because it's not worth my time. That includes your "fascists" that you mention. How this means that I support fascists I have no idea. Maybe anyone who is critical of what you believe in is a fascist then?

Hopefully you will be back soon and can explain to me why I am a fascist or supporter of fascists.

 

[pattylou]

I believe the NY Times is reporting that Canadian health officials have detected the virus in their country.

I thought it worth mentioning that the Canadian strain mentioned a few weeks ago, with some concern, is being reported today as not being the lethal Asian strain.

http://www.canada.com/national/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=9744fb0f-3b58-4ecb-87a3-1402ee2951a6

Of course the Asian virus may mutate into a human form, but if the Canadian virus in any way feeds into people's fears over this... I hope today's report helps keep things in a little more perspective.