Calculating Excited vs Ground State Ratios in the Sun: A Surprising Discovery

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the calculation of the ratio of probabilities for finding an atom in an excited state versus a ground state within the context of the sun, particularly focusing on the implications of the Boltzmann distribution. The scope includes conceptual understanding and theoretical implications related to statistical mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant calculates the ratio of probabilities for excited versus ground states to be approximately 1/109 and connects this to the multiplicities of the system.
  • Another participant questions the relevance of the calculation, noting that the sun is mostly ionized and may not contain many atoms in specific states.
  • A clarification is made regarding the context of the discussion, emphasizing the sun's atmosphere.
  • Further discussion highlights the gaseous or plasma state of the sun's atmosphere and the high temperatures involved.
  • One participant challenges the assumption that the multiplicities must be equal, suggesting that the differences between energy levels need to be considered.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relevance of the calculations given the state of matter in the sun, and there is no consensus on the implications of the multiplicity ratios or the applicability of the Boltzmann distribution in this context.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved assumptions regarding the state of matter in the sun and the applicability of the Boltzmann distribution to the specific conditions being discussed.

zezima1
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My book calculates the ratio of probability to find an atom in an excited state vs finding it in the ground state in the sun and gets approx 1/109.
Essentially this must mean that the ratio of the multiplicities of the system must also be equal to this, i.e.:

\Omega2/\Omega1 = 1/109

How can this be possible? Say you excite the atom. The energy that the surroundings in the sun loses is tiny compared to its total energy. So shouldn't the two multiplicities be approximately the same?
 
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There is something very confusing about your question. There are few (if any) atoms in the sun. Just about everything is fully ionized.
 
It's in the sun's atmosphere.
 
zezima1 said:
It's in the sun's atmosphere.
I am not sure what you mean by the sun's atmosphere, since it is entirely in a gaseous or plasma state. The surface is close to 6000 K. I presume everything is highly ionized, but I am no expert on the subject.
 
Then say its somewhere, where everything is not ionized. This has no relevance for my question, which is about the conceptual understanding of the Boltzmann distribution!
 
zezima1 said:
Essentially this must mean that the ratio of the multiplicities of the system must also be equal to this

Really? This would imply that every energy level is equally likely to be filled, which I hope seems unlikely. So what difference between the ground and the excited state haven’t you taken into account?
 

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