Calculating pressure from a known equation of energy

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating pressure using energy equations in a thermodynamic context. Participants are examining relationships between energy, heat transfer, and pressure in a system undergoing transitions between states.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants are attempting to derive pressure from energy equations and integrals related to heat transfer. There are discussions about unit consistency and corrections to initial equations. Some are exploring the relationship between heat capacity and entropy changes, while others are considering dimensional analysis to infer properties of functions involved.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants sharing insights and corrections. Some have made progress in deriving equations related to entropy and pressure, while others express uncertainty and seek further clarification on their approaches. Multiple interpretations of the equations and their implications are being explored.

Contextual Notes

Participants are working within the constraints of thermodynamic principles and equations, with some noting typographical errors in their initial formulations. There is an emphasis on ensuring dimensional consistency in the equations being discussed.

ForgetfulPhysicist
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Homework Statement
Heat Engine with working substance characterized by energy E = g T^a V, with a>1 and g>0 being known coefficients. The values of P1, V1 are also known. Find P2 /P1 in terms of the known quantities.
Relevant Equations
dE = TdS - PdV
Screen Shot 2023-03-18 at 7.19.06 PM.png


My attempted solution is as follows:

Obviously the heat transfer happens during transitions 1->2 and 3->1.

It's also clear that
P1 = P3
V1 = V2

E2 - E1 = Integral[T dQ , from state 1 to state 2]

E3 - E2 = - Integral[P dV , from state 2 to state 3]

E1 - E3 = Integral[T dQ , from state 3 to state 1] + 7 P1 V1

But I can't find a way to perform any of these integrals or make any progress on this problem.

An attempt to calculate pressure is stuck at: p = - (dE/dV)_S = g a T^(a-1) (dT/dV)_S V + g T^a
 
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ForgetfulPhysicist said:
E2 - E1 = Integral[T dQ , from state 1 to state 2]

E1 - E3 = Integral[T dQ , from state 3 to state 1] + 7 P1 V1
Check the units in these equations.
 
Philip Koeck said:
Check the units in these equations.
Yes that was a typo. They should be written:
E2 - E1 = Integral[dQ , from state 1 to state 2]
E1 - E3 = Integral[dQ , from state 3 to state 1] + 7 P1 V1

One idea: I can calculate Cv = (dE/dT)_V = a g T^(a-1) V , and I also know Cv = T (dS/dT)_V which helps me know a little bit about the change of entropy from state 1 to 2.... but I'm still stuck.
 
Last edited:
ForgetfulPhysicist said:
Yes that was a typo. They should be written:
E2 - E1 = Integral[dQ , from state 1 to state 2]
E1 - E3 = Integral[dQ , from state 3 to state 1] + 7 P1 V1

One idea: I can calculate Cv = (dE/dT)_V = a g T^(a-1) V , and I also know Cv = T (dS/dT)_V which helps me know a little bit about the change of entropy from state 1 to 2.... but I'm still stuck.
I also made a little progress on this by using $$\left(\frac{\partial E}{\partial V}\right)_T=-\left[P-T\left(\frac{\partial P}{\partial T}\right)_V\right]=gT^a$$which leads to $$P=\frac{gT^a}{a-1}+Tf(V)$$
 
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I derived the equation for entropy variation also, but I've as yet not been able to figure out a way that it can be used to provide an answer to this problem: $$dS=\frac{ga}{(a-1)}d(T^{a-1}V)+f(V)dV$$
 
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From dimensional considerations, it makes sense to me that the function f(V) should be proportional to R/V, where R is the gas constant. If f(V) were equal to R/v, we would have $$\frac{PV}{RT}=z=1+\frac{1}{a-1}\frac{E}{RT}$$I'm unable to prove this yet, but I may proceed as if it is the case and see where it takes me.
 

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