Calculating Resultant RPM from Force Applied to Gear/Wheel

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the resultant RPM of a gear or wheel when a force is applied to it. Participants explore various methods and equations related to torque, momentum, and energy transfer, with a focus on the mechanics involved in the interaction between a striking force and the gear's motion.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that the force applied generates torque, which is transferred to the rear wheel via a gear ratio, affecting acceleration and speed.
  • Another participant clarifies that the scenario involves hitting a gear with a stick, emphasizing the need to determine the gear's spin speed based on the force applied.
  • A participant proposes a formula for initial tangential speed based on force, mass, and radius, although they hedge on its correctness.
  • Another participant discusses the relationship between angular acceleration and linear acceleration, suggesting that the time the force is applied affects the resulting speed.
  • A participant outlines a method to calculate the change in momentum of the hammer and the gear, linking it to angular momentum and final angular velocity.
  • They also present an alternative method involving the change in kinetic energy of both the hammer and the gear wheel, providing a detailed mathematical derivation for calculating RPM.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various approaches to the problem, with no consensus on a single method or formula. Different perspectives on the mechanics involved and the equations to use remain evident throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions regarding the nature of the gear (e.g., solid disc of constant density) and the specifics of the force application (duration, angle) are not fully detailed, which may affect the calculations presented.

tomisme
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If i hit a gear/wheel with a certain force how do i calculate how the resultent rpm?
there's a picture attached to help with my explanation.


thanks, Tom
 

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tomisme said:
If i hit a gear/wheel with a certain force how do i calculate how the resultent rpm?
there's a picture attached to help with my explanation.


thanks, Tom

Welcome to the PF. The force you push on the pedal with generates a torque, which is transferred to the rear wheel via a gear ratio. That torque on the rear wheel generates a force at the contact patch with the ground. That force accelerates you and the bicycle forward according to the classic equation:

F = m * a
force [Newtons] is equal to the total mass [kilograms] multiplied by the acceleration [meters per second squared]

The acceleration changes your velocity (increases it), and you calculate the velocity using the kinematic equations of motion. Your speed corresponds to your RPM via the gear ratio.

Hope that helps.


EDIT -- BTW, there is also a retarding force due to air resistance, rolling resistance, etc. The sum of all forces equals the m * a term.
 
thanks for your welcome and a quick reply :). Its not a bike for a lack of a better example I am hitting a gear with stick, and i need to know how fast the gear will spin at the end.
 
the initial tangential speed can be calculated by f= (mv2)/r

i reckon it can be anyways :)
 
tomisme said:
thanks for your welcome and a quick reply :). Its not a bike for a lack of a better example I am hitting a gear with stick, and i need to know how fast the gear will spin at the end.
That depends on how long you apply the force! Berkeman gave you the equation for acceleration - acceleration times time is speed.

Berkeman's equation was the linear form (ie, for how fast a bike will go), but angular acceleration works the same way - check out Tony's link for how it works.
 
You first have to now the change in momentum of the of the hammer = mv - mu

Knowing this you them now the change in momentum of the wheel = change in angular momentum. From that you can the find the final angular velocity which you can translate to a tip velocity.

The other way is to work out the change in K.E of the hammer on hitting the gear wheel and that change is the change in K.e of the wheel. Method two is easier

Maths assuming the gear is a solid disc of constant density and the hammer stops on hitting the gear wheel:
Method 2

Change in K.E of hammer = (1/2) mv^2
change in K.E of gear wheel = (1/2)Iw^2 I is the moment of inertia of the wheel.

w is the angular velocity = 2*pi/T where T is the rotation period of the wheel. f is the frequency of rotation (number of revolutions per second)
Therefore delta K.E of wheel is = (1/2)*I*w^2 = 2*I*pi^2/T^2 = 2*I*f^2*pi^2 = I*pi^2*rpm^2/1800

So;
(1/2)*m*v^2 = I*pi^2*rpm^2/1800

rpm = sqrt(900*m*v^2)/(I*pi^2)

I hope this helps and that I have not made a mistake in my algebra.
 
Last edited:

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