Calculating the Commutator of R_1,R_2 in Coordinates

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the commutator of two operators, R_1 and R_2, defined in terms of partial derivatives and coordinate variables. The context involves algebraic manipulations related to angular momentum in a mathematical physics framework.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the calculation of commutators, questioning the evaluation of differentials and the application of product rules. There is a discussion about the expected outcomes of the commutator calculations and the implications of the results.

Discussion Status

The conversation includes attempts to verify calculations and clarify misunderstandings regarding the properties of derivatives and commutators. Some participants express uncertainty about their reasoning, while others provide insights into the algebraic structure involved.

Contextual Notes

Participants are grappling with the implications of their calculations and the definitions of the operators involved. There is a focus on the correct application of differential operators and the potential for misinterpretation in the context of commutators.

Oxymoron
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Could someone check if I have done this right.

[tex]R_1 = x^2\partial_3 - x^3\partial_2[/tex]
[tex]R_2 = x^3\partial_1 - x^1\partial_3[/tex]
[tex]R_3 = x^1\partial_2 - x^2\partial_1[/tex]

Where [itex]x^i[/itex] are coordinates.

I need to calculate the commutator [itex][R_1,R_2][/itex].

[tex][R_1,R_2] = x^2\partial_3x^3\partial_1 - x^3\partial_1x^2\partial_3 + x^3\partial_2x^1\partial_3 - x^1\partial_3x^3\partial_2 <br /> - (x^3\partial_2x^3\partial_1-x^3\partial_1x^3\partial_2) - (x^2\partial_3x^1\partial_3-x^1\partial_3x^2\partial_3)[/tex]
[tex] .\quad\quad\quad = x^2x^3\partial_3\partial_1 - x^2x^3\partial_1\partial_3 + x^1x^3\partial_2\partial_3-x^1x^3\partial_2\partial_3<br /> - x^3x^3\partial_2\partial_1 + x^3x^3\partial_1\partial_2-x^1x^2\partial_3\partial_3+x^1x^2\partial_3\partial_3[/tex]
[tex].\quad\quad\quad = x^2\partial_1-x^2\partial_1+x^1\partial_2-x^1\partial_2 -x^3x^3\partial_2\partial_1 + x^3x^3\partial_1\partial_2 - x^1x^2\partial_3\partial_3 + x^1x^2\partial_3\partial_3[/tex]
[tex] .\quad\quad\quad = 0[/tex]

And as a result,

[tex][R_1,R_2] = [R_2,R_3] = [R_3,R_1] = 0[/tex]

by cyclically permuting the indices.
 
Last edited:
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I think you're wrong...Check the angular momentum so(3) algebra...

Daniel.
 
You're right. But I don't know where I went wrong. I would have expected

[tex][R_1,R_2] = R_3[/itex][/tex]
 
Last edited:
I think my problem is evaluating the differentials. Here is an example of what I am doing in a simpler problem.

let [itex]A=\partial_x[/itex], [itex]B=\partial_y[/itex], and [itex]C=x\partial_y-y\partial_x[/itex].

Im going to compute [itex][A,C][/itex] and let me know if I've done something wrong...

[tex][A,C] = [\partial_x,x\partial_y-y\partial_x][/tex]
[tex]= \partial_x(x\partial_y - y\partial_x)-(x\partial_y-y\partial_x)\partial_x[/tex]
[tex]= \partial_xx\partial_y-\partial_xy\partial_x - x\partial_y\partial_x+y\partial_x\partial_x[/tex]

Now I am pretty sure [itex]\partial_xx = 1[/itex] so the first term is [itex]\partial_y[/itex].

The second term [itex]\partial_xy\partial_x = \partial_x\partial_xy[/itex] since the partial derivatives commute. The second term equals the fourth term so they cancel.

This leaves the third term. [itex]x\partial_y\partial_x=\partial_y(\partial_xx) = \partial_y(1) = 0[/itex]

So I would say the answer is

[tex][A,C] = \partial_y = B[/itex]<br /> <br /> how does this look?[/tex]
 
Last edited:
To be honest I don't think I've done this right at all.

My basic question is what does

[tex]\partial_yy\partial_x[/tex]

equal? And is it the same thing as

[tex]y\partial_x\partial_y[/tex]

EDIT: Could

[tex]\partial_yy\partial_x = \partial_y(y)\partial_x + y\partial_x\partial_y[/tex]?

If this calculation is right could someone tell me how.
 
Last edited:
Oxymoron said:
To be honest I don't think I've done this right at all.

My basic question is what does

[tex]\partial_yy\partial_x[/tex]

equal? And is it the same thing as

[tex]y\partial_x\partial_y[/tex]

EDIT: Could

[tex]\partial_yy\partial_x = \partial_y(y)\partial_x + y\partial_x\partial_y[/tex]?

If this calculation is right could someone tell me how.

What [tex]\partial_yy\partial_x[/tex] means depends on how you are applying the [tex]\partial_y[/tex]. From a commutator, for example:
[tex][\partial_y, y\partial_x] = \partial_y(y\partial_x)-y\partial_x(\partial_y)[/tex]
In this case the y operator acts on the whole expression so you use the product rule.

-Dan
 
Ah, of course! So in fact

[tex][R_1,R_2] = -R_3[/tex]

and...

[tex][R_2,R_3] = -R_1[/tex]
[tex][R_3,R_1] = -R_2[/tex]
 
Last edited:

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