Calculating the equilibrium distance

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the equilibrium distance between a sphere and a plane, specifically in the context of van der Waals (VDW) forces and adhesion. Participants explore the implications of the force equation derived from Hammaker theory and the conditions under which adhesion occurs, including the effects of surface roughness and the nature of forces at very small gaps.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes a force equation for adhesion based on VDW forces and questions how to determine the equilibrium distance where this force reaches a maximum.
  • Another participant expresses skepticism about the concept of adhesion with a gap between bodies and suggests that adhesion should also consider surface roughness and its effect on effective surface area.
  • A third participant notes that Hammaker models typically assume contact at very small separations, indicating that the provided force equation does not account for all forces in the system and lacks a finite equilibrium separation.
  • Further discussion includes the notion that the equilibrium distance is on the order of angstroms, raising concerns about the applicability of continuum flow assumptions in such small gaps.
  • One participant inquires about the specific system being modeled, revealing that it relates to electromechanics of particles near a wall at low Reynolds numbers.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of adhesion, the role of surface roughness, and the implications of the force equation. There is no consensus on the equilibrium distance or the validity of the assumptions made in the context of the model.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations regarding the assumptions made about adhesion, the dependence on surface characteristics, and the unresolved mathematical aspects of the force equation.

Clausius2
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Hi there,

Let's imagine a sphere touching a plane. Then, I may consider valid the law for adhesion coming from VDW forces:

[tex]F=\frac{Aa}{6h^2}[/tex]

where A is the Hammaker constant, a is the sphere radius and h is the gap between the two bodies. My question is, is there a way of calculating the equilibrium distance [tex]h_o[/tex] where the force reaches its maximum? What cannot be is that as h tends to zero F tends to infinity. There must be some point of equilibrium for very small h in which maybe repulsion forces start to take place. Is that right?
 
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I guess I'd like to see the derivation of this formula.

F clearly cannot go to infinite.

What bothers me is "h is the gap between the two bodies." How does one achieve adhesion with a gap between bodies?

Adhesion should be a function of surface roughness, in addition to VDW. Surface roughness would affect the effective surface area involvedin VDW. And there could also be a softness (hardness) component.

Is 'adhesion' related to traction/friction?
 
Typically, in Hammaker models, the separation between particles is a center-to-center spacing and the global maximum of the inter-particle force is at "contact". By contact, one roughly means that the particles are close enough (of the order of an angstrom between surfaces) that repulsion from surface electrons equals the attractive VDW force.

Clearly, the (Hammaker) force equation provided above models only part of the forces present in the system, since it has no horizontal tangent at finite separation (ie: it provides no finite equilibrium separation).
 
Last edited:
Astronuc said:
I guess I'd like to see the derivation of this formula.

F clearly cannot go to infinite.

What bothers me is "h is the gap between the two bodies." How does one achieve adhesion with a gap between bodies?

Adhesion should be a function of surface roughness, in addition to VDW. Surface roughness would affect the effective surface area involvedin VDW. And there could also be a softness (hardness) component.

Is 'adhesion' related to traction/friction?

It is obtained integrating the interaction energy (see fundamentals of adhesion, Lee). You're right about the roughness, h models an average gap between both surfaces.

Gokul said:
Typically, in Hammaker models, the separation between particles is a center-to-center spacing and the global maximum of the inter-particle force is at "contact". By contact, one roughly means that the particles are close enough (of the order of an angstrom between surfaces) that repulsion from surface electrons equals the attractive VDW force.

Clearly, the (Hammaker) force equation provided above models only part of the forces present in the system, since it has no horizontal tangent at finite separation (ie: it provides no finite equilibrium separation).

Yeah, I did a little of research and I found that the equilibrium distance is usually of order of angstroms. What bothers me now is that I couldn't assume Continuum flow of air in such a small gap.

Thanks guys.
 
Just to satisfy my curiosity, what is the system you are trying to model?
 
Gokul43201 said:
Just to satisfy my curiosity, what is the system you are trying to model?

No problem. Actually, it is for my thesis. About Electromechanics of Particles, in particular I'm looking now at a micro particle near a wall at Low Reynolds Numbers. It's funny.
 

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