Calculating the inlet lengths of a fluid circulating in a pipe?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the purpose and calculation of inlet lengths for fluids circulating in pipes, particularly in the context of fluid dynamics. Participants explore the significance of inlet lengths in engineering applications, including instrument placement and flow development, and consider both numerical and analytical methods for determining these lengths.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Homework-related
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that calculating the entrance length is not always necessary for fully developed flow, but it is important for instrument placement and minimizing flow restrictions.
  • There is a request for clarification on what is meant by "input length" and the methods to calculate it.
  • One participant proposes using numerical resolution (ANSYS Fluent) and comparing results with analytical solutions for turbulent and laminar flows.
  • Concerns are raised about the effects of turbulence on measurements, with some arguing that turbulence should be avoided to ensure accurate readings from pressure and velocity measuring instruments.
  • Another participant notes that the inlet length effects are more significant for laminar flow compared to turbulent flow, particularly in short pipes.
  • Participants discuss the implications of turbulence on the design of instruments and the placement of internal vanes to manage flow distribution.
  • Some express uncertainty about the feasibility of avoiding turbulence in practical designs and seek clarification on its impact on calculations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a mix of agreement and disagreement regarding the necessity and implications of calculating inlet lengths. While some acknowledge its importance for instrument placement and flow characteristics, others question the practicality of avoiding turbulence and its effects on measurements.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight that the relationship between pressure drop and flow rate can be affected by inlet length, particularly in short pipes. There are unresolved questions about the best practices for managing turbulence in fluid dynamics calculations.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students and professionals in engineering, particularly those focused on fluid dynamics, instrumentation, and flow measurement techniques.

hya_t
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TL;DR Summary: why do we need input length in fluid's dynamics

What is the purpose of calculating the inlet lengths of a fluid circulating in a pipe? and how to calculate it correctly? why do we need it in engineering? This is for a class project where we are asked to calculate it and I think it is better explained by modeling it and using it in a problem or situation that we encounter almost every day.
 
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Welcome, @hya_t ! :cool:

We not always need to exactly calculate the entrance length for full development of flow.
It is important for location of instruments in pipes and to reduce restriction to the flow formed by reduced free cross-section.

These articles may be helpful to you:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entrance_length_(fluid_dynamics)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velocity_stack

1703537378091.png

IMG_0019__12069.1697247297.jpg
 
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hya_t said:
This is for a class project where we are asked to calculate it
By what method are you being asked to calculate the input length?
Can you describe what you mean by "input length".
Input length to what?
 
256bits said:
By what method are you being asked to calculate the input length?
Can you describe what you mean by "input length".
Input length to what?

Here is the formulation of the problem:
Determine the inlet lengths of a fluid circulating in a pipe by numerical resolution (ANSYS Fluent) and compare the result with the analytical solutions seen in class (Turbulent and laminar).
Compare velocity profiles with internal flow for different fluids.

Now,
I need a situation where it is necessary to calculate the entry lengths in everyday life to better explain it to the class and better model it
 
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Lnewqban said:
Welcome, @hya_t ! :cool:

We not always need to exactly calculate the entrance length for full development of flow.
It is important for location of instruments in pipes and to reduce restriction to the flow formed by reduced free cross-section.

These articles may be helpful to you:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entrance_length_(fluid_dynamics)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velocity_stack

View attachment 337689
View attachment 337691
Therefore knowing the input length allows us to know the location of the instruments of the circuit and this will affect the performance even of the instrument placed ?
 
hya_t said:
Therefore knowing the input length allows us to know the location of the instruments of the circuit and this will affect the performance even of the instrument placed ?
I would say yes to that.
Trying to avoid the locations where turbulence induces a false reading.

beta&t=DE4IIbgAnf3O7PYPcaxQo6Bk_pCymNXmDwUmGsJnYEk.jpg
 
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Lnewqban said:
I would say yes to that.
Trying to avoid the locations where turbulence induces a false reading.

View attachment 337755
I do not really understand
therefore everything we design in reality takes into account the fact of avoiding turbulence (is it even possible ? ) as best as possible. but I would like to know why turbulence does not suit us in our calculations?
thank you
 
It is necessary to include the effects of the inlet length of fluid in a pipe for the case of short pipes. Otherwise you will get the wrong answer for the relationship between the pressure drop and the flow rate. The inlet flow development effect is more of a factor for laminar flow than turbulent flow.
 
hya_t said:
I do not really understand
therefore everything we design in reality takes into account the fact of avoiding turbulence (is it even possible ? ) as best as possible. but I would like to know why turbulence does not suit us in our calculations?
thank you
Turbulence is to be avoided for pressure and velocity measuring instruments only where a “cleaner” flow exist.
For example, velocity sensors in airplanes are located far from the skin of the machine and from vortices.

The problem with measuring turbulent fluids is that there are constant fluctuations of pressure and chages of direction of the velocity vector, which induce a fluctuating measured value.

In other cases, we want to know where internal directional or straightening vanes are required inside a duct, in order to better use the available cross-section and avoid self-restrictions caused by uneven distribution of the velocity gradient.

Please, see:
https://www.modernairliners.com/mod...d-indicator-how-pilots-measure-airplane-speed

https://buildingengineer.wordpress....ary-component-or-efficiency-reduction-device/

There may be other applications of this concept of inlet lengths of a fluid calculations, which I am not familiar with.

:cool:
 

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