Calculating the probability of an animal finding a resource

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the probability of a model animal finding a water resource within a defined landscape. Participants explore various factors affecting this probability, including the size of the landscape, the size of the water pool, the animal's search behavior, and the implications of different search patterns.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant calculates the initial probability of finding water in a single attempt as 0.0462 based on the area of the water pool relative to the landscape size.
  • Another participant suggests that if the animal can search the landscape over a day, the probability of finding the water pool could be considered 1, assuming an ideal search path.
  • Concerns are raised about the realism of the ideal search path, noting that real animals do not typically follow such paths, which could affect the probability of finding the water.
  • Discussion includes the impact of the water pool's size on search efficiency, with some participants arguing that while it reduces search time, it does not necessarily increase the probability of finding the pool.
  • Search patterns of various animals are mentioned, suggesting a potential link between animal behavior and fractal properties, although this is not directly tied to the probability calculations.
  • Further calculations are presented regarding the time required to search different configurations of the landscape, factoring in the detection radius and the size of the water pool.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of search patterns and the realism of the model. While some agree on the calculations regarding search time, there is no consensus on how these factors influence the overall probability of finding the water.

Contextual Notes

Assumptions about the animal's search behavior, the ideal path taken, and the effects of landscape edges are not fully resolved. The discussion also highlights the complexity of modeling animal behavior in relation to resource finding.

killbot2000
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I'd like some help working out the probability of my model animal finding water in a day.

In my 'model' there is a square landscape 17km^2
The water pool is a circle of 500m radius (so approx 0.7854km^2)
So in a one off shot the chances of hitting the water is 0.7854/17 = 0.0462 right?

But if I suppose that the animal can search over the course of a day, how can I incorporate this into increasing its prob. of finding the water?

Assume for the sake of argument that it can travel at 1m/second and has a 500m detection range then it should 'cut out' circles the same radius as the water pool every 1000 seconds. Then I think it would cut out 86400/1000 = 86.4 in day.

If this is correct how can I convert it into a probability?

I know this is a ramble, but I've been at it all morning, so any help would be much appreciated!
 
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So in a one off shot the chances of hitting the water is 0.7854/17 = 0.0462 right?
If the animal magically appears at a random position in the landscape, this is the probability that it will appear in the water.

But if I suppose that the animal can search over the course of a day, how can I incorporate this into increasing its prob. of finding the water?
It depends on the way it searches for water.

Neglecting effects at the edges of the landscape, your model animal can search 1000m2 per second. With an ideal path, it would need roughly 17000 seconds to see the whole landscape, less than 5 hours. The probability to find the pool within a day is 1, independent of its size.

Real animals rarely walk on those ideal lines, so the probability depends on the walking algorithm.
 
What's the probability of an animal appearing out of thin air into an area to which it's never been?
 
mfb said:
If the animal magically appears at a random position in the landscape, this is the probability that it will appear in the water.

It depends on the way it searches for water.

Neglecting effects at the edges of the landscape, your model animal can search 1000m2 per second. With an ideal path, it would need roughly 17000 seconds to see the whole landscape, less than 5 hours. The probability to find the pool within a day is 1, independent of its size.

Real animals rarely walk on those ideal lines, so the probability depends on the walking algorithm.

Pool size radius matters: ( versus a search independent of pool radius )
Even less search time for a 500 radius water pool. Search radius would be detection radius 500m plus the water pool radius giving a total 1000m search radius ( assuming pool edge detection ). A 5km by 3.5 km grid (17.5 square km ) could be searched in 2 passes. So, not exactly, but somewhere around 9000 seconds of search required.

In fact a 5 x 4 km rectangular area could be searched in less than 10000 seconds ( again assuming edge detection of the water pool ).
 
256bits said:
Pool size radius matters
It reduces searching time, but it does not increase the probability to find the pool.

pool edge detection
:D

If the pool is circular and fully within the search area, we can do even better. We can ignore 1km on both sides of the 5km-range, and the total travel distance is below 8.5km*.
A 3x6km-area would require at most 6km, as it can be done in a single pass.

*Edit: Below ##(6.5 + \sqrt{2})km \approx 7.9km##.
 

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