Calculus Textbook for Home Education Student

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around selecting appropriate calculus textbooks for a home education curriculum, specifically considering M. Spivak's Calculus 4th edition and George Simmons' Calculus with Analytic Geometry. Participants explore the rigor of these texts and the foundational knowledge required for success in calculus, including the role of linear algebra.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses interest in using Spivak's Calculus 4th edition and seeks recommendations for supplemental calculus textbooks suitable for an engineering/physics major.
  • Another participant emphasizes the importance of understanding linear algebra as foundational for calculus, particularly in multiple dimensions, and suggests that familiarity with linear algebra will aid in comprehending Spivak's approach.
  • Some participants note that Spivak's book is challenging and may not be ideal for a first encounter with calculus, suggesting prior knowledge of calculus and proof techniques may be beneficial.
  • There is a discussion about whether Spivak's calculus requires knowledge of linear algebra, with some arguing it does not while others assert that understanding linear algebra can enhance comprehension of calculus concepts.
  • Participants mention the relevance of linear algebra in understanding calculus on manifolds, indicating a potential connection between the two subjects.
  • One participant acknowledges their limited experience with linear algebra but believes it will not hinder their study of Spivak's calculus.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity of linear algebra for understanding Spivak's calculus, with some asserting it is essential for higher-dimensional calculus while others maintain that Spivak's text can be approached independently of linear algebra knowledge. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the optimal order of studying these subjects.

Contextual Notes

Some participants highlight the varying levels of rigor and difficulty in Spivak's text, indicating that it may not be suitable for all students without prior calculus experience. There is also mention of the potential need for additional resources to support understanding of linear algebra concepts.

Linuxkid
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Hello all,


I'm considering Calculus 4th edition from M. Spivak for my Senior year Calculus book along with George Simmons Calculus with Analytic Geometry for a joint 18.01 MIT OCW and self-study curriculum.
I understand that his book involves quite some rigor and ruthless problems, but I'm up for it.

My algebra training is up to Hyperbolic functions, Binomial series, basic matrices, and some derivatives (and the rest of Precalculus, like sets and sequences, polynomial etc).


So, other than Calculus 4th edition; what supplemental -or not- Calculus textbook do you suggest for a prospective engineering/physics major?



Thanks for the help.


-Nikos
 
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Hey LinuxKid and welcome to the forums.

Do you have books or resources in mind for Linear Algebra?

The whole calculus thing in multiple dimensions is based on linear algebra not only to do calculations, but also to understand what is going on.

Basically you can think of a matrix as a general linear object like Y or X is as a normal 1D variable. The object itself though behaves a bit differently than if you want to multiply say x*y since you are now dealing in an arbitrary space and not just a single scalar number.

Linearity is pretty much the most fundamental object in mathematics. All of differential and integral calculus depends on it (since derivatives are linear operators which means understanding linear operators helps you understand differentiation across any number of variables) and it's basically the foundation for looking at arbitrary vector spaces and bases for such vector spaces.

You can think of vectors as just being arrows: what the arrows correspond to is not so much important, in the same way that what a normal 1D variable x corresponds to isn't really important.

Now the ideas in Spivak use linear algebra since Spivak looks at generalized forms of mathematics and these forums require generalized structures and the generalized linear structure is a matrix.

A matrix provides the most basic way to have a general linear transformation not only on high dimensional spaces, but also in-between spaces as well (So instead of going from 3D to 3D you can go from 3D to 5D or 5D to 2D and so on). It does this in a linear way, but the structure is what is important.

So before you jump into Spivak, my recommendation is to understand linear algebra and what linearity means in the context of having a single object (a matrix) and what that object means in the context of algebraic identities involving matrices (like A*B, A+B up to more complicated algebraic expressions involving norms and other attributes).

You'll need to understand this when you look at how Spivak introduces the idea of a derivative in n-dimensions.

The real key is to get intuition for these abstract linear objects actually do and what they represent and it will take a little getting used to, but once you do it, you'll see all these multi-variable generalizations and they will make more sense.
 
Linuxkid said:
Hello all,


I'm considering Calculus 4th edition from M. Spivak for my Senior year Calculus book along with George Simmons Calculus with Analytic Geometry for a joint 18.01 MIT OCW and self-study curriculum.
I understand that his book involves quite some rigor and ruthless problems, but I'm up for it.

My algebra training is up to Hyperbolic functions, Binomial series, basic matrices, and some derivatives (and the rest of Precalculus, like sets and sequences, polynomial etc).


So, other than Calculus 4th edition; what supplemental -or not- Calculus textbook do you suggest for a prospective engineering/physics major?



Thanks for the help.


-Nikos

You should know that Spivak is a very hard book and is usually not meant for a first encounter in calculus. Before tackling Spivak, you should know a bit of calculus already and you should be pretty well-versed in proofs.
If you want to be challenged mathematically, then Spivak is the ideal book however. It has very difficult exercises.



chiro said:
Hey LinuxKid and welcome to the forums.

Do you have books or resources in mind for Linear Algebra?

The whole calculus thing in multiple dimensions is based on linear algebra not only to do calculations, but also to understand what is going on.

Basically you can think of a matrix as a general linear object like Y or X is as a normal 1D variable. The object itself though behaves a bit differently than if you want to multiply say x*y since you are now dealing in an arbitrary space and not just a single scalar number.

Linearity is pretty much the most fundamental object in mathematics. All of differential and integral calculus depends on it (since derivatives are linear operators which means understanding linear operators helps you understand differentiation across any number of variables) and it's basically the foundation for looking at arbitrary vector spaces and bases for such vector spaces.

You can think of vectors as just being arrows: what the arrows correspond to is not so much important, in the same way that what a normal 1D variable x corresponds to isn't really important.

Now the ideas in Spivak use linear algebra since Spivak looks at generalized forms of mathematics and these forums require generalized structures and the generalized linear structure is a matrix.

A matrix provides the most basic way to have a general linear transformation not only on high dimensional spaces, but also in-between spaces as well (So instead of going from 3D to 3D you can go from 3D to 5D or 5D to 2D and so on). It does this in a linear way, but the structure is what is important.

So before you jump into Spivak, my recommendation is to understand linear algebra and what linearity means in the context of having a single object (a matrix) and what that object means in the context of algebraic identities involving matrices (like A*B, A+B up to more complicated algebraic expressions involving norms and other attributes).

You'll need to understand this when you look at how Spivak introduces the idea of a derivative in n-dimensions.

The real key is to get intuition for these abstract linear objects actually do and what they represent and it will take a little getting used to, but once you do it, you'll see all these multi-variable generalizations and they will make more sense.

Spivak's calculus doesn't require any knowledge of linear algebra. So you can study Spivak and linear algebra in any order you want.
 
The point was that linear algebra is a good thing to know to understand calculus in many dimensions. Did you read my comment? I elaborated on this and some of the reasons in detail.

Also when you see the modern definition of a derivative as opposed to other definitions, then you'll see just how important understanding linear algebra can be.
 
chiro said:
The point was that linear algebra is a good thing to know to understand calculus in many dimensions. Did you read my comment? I elaborated on this and some of the reasons in detail.

Spivak doesn't do calculus in many dimensions, so no, I don't see the point.
 
Maybe he's referring to Calculus On Manifolds? I haven't read that book but from what I've heard linear algebra is necessary for understanding it.
 
PKDfan said:
Maybe he's referring to Calculus On Manifolds? I haven't read that book but from what I've heard linear algebra is necessary for understanding it.

Aaah, yes, that might be the case. I forgot Spivak had calculus on manifolds as well. And indeed, you absolutely need to know linear algebra to understand that.
 
Yeah that's the one I meant: should have clarified!
 
Thanks for the replies guys,I practiced some matrices and concepts in Linear Algebra, but only briefly as part of precalculus. But as clarified above, shouldn't be a problem with Calculus 4th edition.
 

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