Can a Photon Have a Perfectly Smooth Orbit?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the concept of whether a photon can have a perfectly smooth orbit, particularly in the context of black holes. Participants explore the implications of wavelength and amplitude in relation to photon orbits and stability.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions if a photon can orbit smoothly, suggesting that if its wavelength is twice the diameter of its orbit, the wave might replicate the orbit offset by amplitude.
  • Another participant asserts that photon orbits require black holes for sufficient deflection and expresses uncertainty about the stability of such orbits, noting that unstable orbits would not allow for interference due to the short lifespan of the photon.
  • There is a discussion about the amplitude of a photon, with one participant stating it is not a displacement or length in space, while another questions if displacement relates to polarization.
  • Further clarification is provided that the amplitude refers to the direction of the electric field, not a spatial line.
  • A participant reiterates the instability of photon orbits around black holes and introduces the idea that stable photonic modes may not exist near a singularity due to diffraction effects on the wavefunction.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the stability of photon orbits, particularly in relation to black holes. While some agree on the instability of these orbits, there is no consensus on the implications of wavelength and amplitude in this context.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of defining amplitude and its implications for photon behavior, indicating a need for clarity on these concepts. The discussion also reflects uncertainty regarding the conditions under which photon orbits might be stable.

Leon (AW)
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can a photon have a perfectly smooth orbit?

say for e.g. you have a photon orbiting a point, if its wavelength were to become twice the diameter of its orbit then would the wave not become a replica of the orbit offset by the amplitude?

similarly say the amplitude is the radius of the orbit and the wavelength is the diameter would the wave not travel in a straight line through the centre?
 
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Photon orbits require black holes, otherwise their deflection is not strong enough. I don't think those orbits are stable, but I would have to check. If the orbits are unstable, you don't have to worry about interference - the photon will not live long enough anyway. If the orbits are stable, photons might be long-living for specific frequencies only.
offset by the amplitude? [...] similarly say the amplitude is the radius of the orbit
The amplitude of a photon is not a displacement or length in space.
 
mfb said:
The amplitude of a photon is not a displacement or length in space.

Isn't its displacement in space the principal through which polorization works?
 
No, it is the direction of the electric field. This is NOT a line in space (but some images are misleading, as they plot it like that), the direction is defined at every point in space.
 
mfb said:
Photon orbits require black holes, otherwise their deflection is not strong enough. I don't think those orbits are stable, but I would have to check. If the orbits are unstable, you don't have to worry about interference - the photon will not live long enough anyway. If the orbits are stable, photons might be long-living for specific frequencies only.
The amplitude of a photon is not a displacement or length in space.

Yup, photon orbits around black holes are unstable.
 
My intuition is that you cannot get stable photonic modes around a singularity due to diffraction of the photonic wavefunction.

Claude.
 

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