Can Computational Physicists Find Good Jobs In Industry?

[Copar]

I am a transfer student in the states, I am considering pursuing a BS in computational applied physics.

I do not want a PHD in physics, but I do love the subject.

For you computational physicists in industry, do you like your job? Are there future opportunities for someone pursuing a BS in computational physics?

 

[gleem]

Check out this website to answer some of your questions. Some of the job/duties listed may require an advanced degree but you can use it to structure your course of study to meet some of the job requirements.
https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/finding-a-job/do-with-computational-physics-degree

 

[CrysPhys]

Are there future opportunities for someone pursuing a BS in computational physics?

I recommend that you check with the departmental office and the alumni office at your school. Try to find out where grads have ended up going and reach out to them. Sometimes the offices won't release contact info to you, but will forward email from you to the relevant alumni.

 

[gleem]

This from AIP statistics website may help

 

[Vanadium 50]

A BS in physics doesn't really make you a physicist. Also, the "computational" part is what, maybe three courses? This is surely valuable knowledge, but its really not "expertise" - you will not be the principle designer of an aircraft engine using CFD. You might be part of a team.

Most BS physics graduates do not end up doing physics. (Most history majors do not end up as historians, nor philosophy majors philosophers, etc) With a BS, you should be looking for a job that utilizes your skills, but not necessarily your domain knowledge: r.f. writing up a project's outcome vs. writing up a lab report.

 

[gleem]

One of the problems that I observed in the early years of management engineering was their ineffectiveness because of the lack of knowledge of the domain in which they were working. They had all the skills for solving problems like inefficiencies, cost reduction, etc but were stymied and ineffective because they didn't understand the processes that they were trying to improve. This was in a hospital, The hospital created a department for them but it lasted only about five years since, well I guess,it didn't look cost-effective,

 

[Haborix]

Studying physics is not a job training program. Anyone studying physics should appreciate that they are going to have do the leg work to develop skills (or know how to translate their skills for a job interview) valuable to whatever job/industry they will seek out. In almost all cases, when you find someone out in the wild with a physics education, their job title will almost certainly not have "physicist" in it.

 

[PhysicsRelearner]

I don’t know how they survey or calculate but the NY Fed released research recently on unemployment rates by degree. From this, recent physics grads have a bit under 2x the unemployment rate of the average graduate. This is a problem.

One hypothesis I have is the way recruiting is done now harms those with skills but the experience is not immediately obvious. Just about every HR recruiting team uses online applications which will screen out those without the requirements for the jobs. If you need a conversation to explain why you actually have the skills if it isn’t obvious to an HR recruiter, then you are out of luck.

When I was hiring, I forced HR to give me every application regardless of the nature of it. Had to fight incredible hard to do this. I often found a great candidate who was screened out. But this was a huge time sink for me and very few would be willing to do it.

Networking and connections are going to be much more important I think for physics grads than some other majors.

 

[gleem]

I don’t know how they survey or calculate but the NY Fed released research recently on unemployment rates by degree. From this, recent physics grads have a bit under 2x the unemployment rate of the average graduate. This is a problem.

According to this survey, you have a better chance of getting a job with a Philosophy degree? Physics seems to be the low man on the totem pole for science degrees. I'm not sure about these numbers.

 

[Vanadium 50]

I'm not sure about these numbers.

I am not either. They also don't mesh with the AIP's historical trends, which has physics majors at half the unemployment rate as the national average. Nor does it mesh with the typical complaint - which is rarely "I can't get a job" but rather "I can't get a job that checks all my boxes".

I wonder how much is due to 2022, Covid and the prevalence of taking "gap years".

 

[StatGuy2000]

I am not either. They also don't mesh with the AIP's historical trends, which has physics majors at half the unemployment rate as the national average. Nor does it mesh with the typical complaint - which is rarely "I can't get a job" but rather "I can't get a job that checks all my boxes".

I wonder how much is due to 2022, Covid and the prevalence of taking "gap years".

The article lists the US Census Bureau American Community Survey (IPUMS) as the source of the data. Given that the reporting in the AIP may be subject to reporting bias, it may be the New York Federal Reserve data may potentially have a more accurate reflection of the unemployment and underemployment rate, with the caveat that one needs to look more closely at the methodology of the IPUMS.

That being said, the results for the unemployment rate of physics majors do mesh anecdotally with what I have read or heard of the experiences of those with solely a Bachelor's degree in physics in Canada.

I should also point out that the New York Fed link article also shows the overall unemployment rate and underemployment rate for all recent college graduates between 1990 and 2022.

https://www.newyorkfed.org/research/college-labor-market#--:explore:underemployment

https://www.newyorkfed.org/research/college-labor-market#--:explore:unemployment

I should also note that according to the same article, math undergraduate majors report an unemployment rate of 3.4%, slightly below the national average (3.6%), and computer science undergraduate majors report an unemployment rate of 4.3%, slightly above the national average.
And the lowest unemployment rate by major? Industrial engineering majors, at 0.2%.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Well, you're the stats expert. Me, I think unraveling this is a full-time job.

The old US Census was every 10 years, and 10% filled out the "long form". The US graduates 5000 BS physics majors per year who do not go on to PhD programs, so we get a look at 500 every 10 years. If unemployment is around 4%, we're counting 20 people. To me, that tells me there is a 1σ uncertainty of about 1% absolute.

I am less familiar with the new ACS. It's supposed to be more often, which is good, but a smaller sample, which is bad. If the sample is much smaller than 10%, though comparing two numbers a percent or two apart is meaningless.

The AIP survey has a different problem. They try and sample all 5000, but don't get them all. Further, there is a bias - they are more likely to miss a homeless graduate (if there are any) than someone who went on to grad school (where he's easily found). So yoir statistical error goes down, and your systematic error goes up. Which is better?

Anecdotally, zero undergraduates I have worked with have been involuntarily ubemployed post graduation. A third, differently biased sample.

 

[gleem]

Still, philosophers are more employable than physicists., Really? By the way, Buc-ees the world's largest gas station and convenience store will pay $22/hr to clean restrooms. I this where they are going? Maybe philosophers are just realists and take what they can while physicists are too idealistic.

 

[PhysicsRelearner]

There might not be much of a disconnect. The AIP report from December has Physics unemployment rate at 6%

https://aip.brightspotcdn.com/dims4...20587e/phybsoutcomes-status-of-phybs-fig1.png

 

[PhysicsRelearner]

Sorry - pasted the link, not the graph

 

[Vanadium 50]

Well, if it is typically half the unemployment level and jumped up in 2022, that suggests that it is Covid-related.

 

[gleem]

The graph indicates that the BS grads not going to grad school had a 13% unemployment rate.

 

[Astronuc]

I am a transfer student in the states, I am considering pursuing a BS in computational applied physics.

I do not want a PHD in physics, but I do love the subject.

For you computational physicists in industry, do you like your job? Are there future opportunities for someone pursuing a BS in computational physics?

What about an MS degree?

I would recommend looking into multiphysics programs like Comsol and ANSYS or ABAQUS (Simulia by Dassault). Does one want to be a developer, user or developer/user?

https://www.comsol.com/
https://www.ansys.com/resource-center/webinar/ansys-multiphysics-for-real-world-physics
https://www.3ds.com/products/simulia/abaqus/multiphysics
Disclaimer: No endorsement expressed or implied.

One can search on Comsol, ANSYS or ABAQUS multiphysics and perhaps find videos that give one an idea of the software.

Review journals such as Journal of Computational Physics to see what is being published.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/journal/journal-of-computational-physics/issues

Read related journals in areas of interest to see who is using computational physics.

 

[gwnorth]

Still, philosophers are more employable than physicists., Really? By the way, Buc-ees the world's largest gas station and convenience store will pay $22/hr to clean restrooms. I this where they are going? Maybe philosophers are just realists and take what they can while physicists are too idealistic.

Yes the question is how does one define "employment". A burger flipper at McDonalds or the oft-maligned Starbuck's barista is "employed". Doesn't mean that that's an ideal outcome after spending 4+ years studying in higher education. The data also indicates that those unemployment rates are for "recent graduates with a bachelor's degree excluding those currently enrolled in school", so maybe you're right that newly graduated Physics majors are more inclined to wait out trying to land their first post-graduate job than Philosophy majors, who fearing poorer employment prospects, take the first position they can get. That conclusion may also be born out by the fact that the underemployment figure, defined as "the share of recent bachelor graduates working in jobs that typically do not require a college degree" for Philosophy majors is higher than that of Physics majors (47.3% vs 31.2%), and that their median early career salary ($41,000 vs $62,000) isn't that far off of what high school graduates earn. All which would seem to support the conclusion that more Philosophy majors are settling for working in low wage jobs.

The other consideration may also be that since almost 10% more Physics majors go on to graduate studies than Philosophy majors (67.9% vs 57.9%), those who don't may potentially be poorer students on average and therefore equally potentially less employable.