Can Every Indeterminate Form Be Evaluated?

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter darkchild
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Forms Limits
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the evaluation of limits that result in indeterminate forms, exploring whether every such limit can be evaluated and the implications of limits that do not exist. Participants examine definitions and techniques related to limits, including the conditions under which limits can be said to have solutions.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether every limit that takes on an indeterminate form can be evaluated, suggesting that it depends on the definition of "evaluated."
  • There is a distinction made between limits that yield a finite number, are unbounded, or do not exist at all, with examples provided to illustrate these cases.
  • Some participants propose that techniques exist to either evaluate limits or assert that they do not exist, but they debate the terminology used, such as whether this process should be called "simplifying."
  • It is noted that L'Hopital's Rule applies only to certain indeterminate forms and that other forms require different techniques for evaluation.
  • A participant points out that L'Hopital's Rule cannot be applied to every indeterminate form, providing a specific example to illustrate this point.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether every indeterminate form can be evaluated and the terminology surrounding limits and their solutions. No consensus is reached on these points.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in the application of techniques like L'Hopital's Rule, noting that different indeterminate forms require different approaches. There is also ambiguity in the definitions of terms like "evaluated" and "solution" in the context of limits.

darkchild
Messages
153
Reaction score
0
Is it true that every limit that takes on an indeterminate form can be evaluated?

Is it proper to say that a limit problem has a solution if the limit does not exist?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
darkchild said:
Is it true that every limit that takes on an indeterminate form can be evaluated?
It depends on how you define "evaluated." If, when you attempt to evaluate a limit, you get an indeterminate form, there are techniques that you can use to either a) evaluate the limit (get a number), or b) say that the limit doesn't exist (which includes ##\infty## as the "value" of the limit).
darkchild said:
Is it proper to say that a limit problem has a solution if the limit does not exist?
We don't say that a limit problem "has a solution." Equations and inequalities have solutions. A limit can be a) a finite number, b) unbounded, or c) not exist at all.
##\lim_{x \to \infty} x^2## doesn't exist, in the sense that it is unbounded. We can also say that ##\lim_{x \to \infty} x^2 = \infty##. All this means is that ##x^2## grows large without bound as x gets large.
##\lim_{n \to \infty} (-1)^n## doesn't exist, period, because it oscillates forever between the two values, 1 and -1.
 
Mark44 said:
It depends on how you define "evaluated." If, when you attempt to evaluate a limit, you get an indeterminate form, there are techniques that you can use to either a) evaluate the limit (get a number), or b) say that the limit doesn't exist (which includes ##\infty## as the "value" of the limit).

Ok, then is it appropriate to say that every indeterminate form can be simplified?
 
darkchild said:
Ok, then is it appropriate to say that every indeterminate form can be simplified?
Like I said, when you get an indeterminate form, there are techniques (such as L'Hopital's Rule or algebraic techniques) that you can use to evaluate the limit or say that it doesn't exist. I wouldn't call this "simplifying" the limit expression, though. L'Hopital's Rule applies only to the ##[\frac{-\infty}{\infty}]## and ##[\frac 0 0]## indeterminate forms. Other indeterminate forms, such as ##[1^{\infty}]##, require different techniques.
 
It's worth pointing out that even L'Hopital can't be applied to every ##\frac\infty\infty## indeterminate form either. For example ##\frac{x+\sin(x)}{x}## as ##x\to\infty##.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
4K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K