Can Humans Really Have Superhuman Strength?

[FizixFreak]

I meant the assumption method you used.

Comparing up horsepower to the guy, and then as I showed the next step in your own assumption was to look at other humans.

The only difference was you assumed the guys power (using the 260hp figure not the 30,000 men one) and I did it the other way around.

What assumption do you see here?are you talking about the foot-lbs combination?

1HP=33,000lbs-foot/minute or 550lbs-foot/second so this guy claims to have the power of 143,000lbs-foot/second so if he is right he can move 550lbs of weight for 260 feet(you can think of other combinations as well) IN ONE SECOND just goes to show you how ridiculous that claim is i might have made some mistake there so any correction will be appreciated for reference check this out

Again here is the reference to all that

http://www.howstuffworks.com/horsepower.htm

 

[nismaratwork]

Sooo...

putting aside HP for a second... let's use the approximations by both of you guys, and consider what the forces involved would do to bone, tendon, and muscle. I've looked through the JAMA, and a few others, and found no mention of this man. If any tests were done on tissue samples, they were done privately, or were not impressive. Frankly I don't know that human tissues can withstand the acceleration under that kind of power anyway, including bone (torsion at least).

I'd also have to wonder what good that strength is, and why it would evolve? Even if we run with the 'god gave it to him' notion... why? From my understanding, the god of Islam is not big on 'proving' things this way, the point being that was already done many times. No other god I can think of in other theologies would just plop some guy down with absurd strength and nothing better to do with it than talk about it and have loads of sex.

Maybe, even without the details, and in a scientific OR religious context, we may find this claim to be absurd on its face?

 

[JaredJames]

What assumption do you see here?

You made assumptions, I made assumptions, we came to the same conclusion. Job done.

I think we'll leave it there. Just wasting space now.

 

[FizixFreak]

Sooo...

putting aside HP for a second... let's use the approximations by both of you guys, and consider what the forces involved would do to bone, tendon, and muscle. I've looked through the JAMA, and a few others, and found no mention of this man. If any tests were done on tissue samples, they were done privately, or were not impressive. Frankly I don't know that human tissues can withstand the acceleration under that kind of power anyway, including bone (torsion at least).

I'd also have to wonder what good that strength is, and why it would evolve? Even if we run with the 'god gave it to him' notion... why? From my understanding, the god of Islam is not big on 'proving' things this way, the point being that was already done many times. No other god I can think of in other theologies would just plop some guy down with absurd strength and nothing better to do with it than talk about it and have loads of sex.

Maybe, even without the details, and in a scientific OR religious context, we may find this claim to be absurd on its face?

I think even measuring strength in HP is a bad comparison NEWTON might have been a better unit am i right? any ways eating raw meat and molten butter and having sex 15 times a day bending a coin with his eye socket this guy is interesting(do you the photo at 35sec of the video? i think there is something fishy here) i don't think this is the way of the Egyptians to tell the world "hay don't mess with us we have this hulk on our sides" i mean they are probably not bluffing but no doubt the media of their country is being HIGHLY IRRESPONSIBLE buying into something like that without any demonstration only on the basis of an ambiguous test is quite immature and to top that all they are actully not being skeptical about it but i have to say the reporter in the beginning of the video is pretty cute:!).

Nismar i already explained that there is no religious angle here and being the only Muslim here i think its OK if you can take my word for it

I really don't want to talk about religion right now but it seems you have a HUGE misconception about the concept of GOD in ISLAM we believe that the GOD of the Jews,Christians,and the Muslims is the same there is no separate GOD for any religion that is why Muslims prefers the word ALLAH as it is universal and applies to all humans without discrimination of any religion.

You made assumptions, I made assumptions, we came to the same conclusion. Job done.

I think we'll leave it there. Just wasting space now.

I would still say that i made no assumptions but you are right we are just wasting time on this so let's just forget about that.

 

[nismaratwork]

I think even measuring strength in HP is a bad comparison NEWTON might have been a better unit am i right? any ways eating raw meat and molten butter and having sex 15 times a day bending a coin with his eye socket this guy is interesting(do you the photo at 35sec of the video? i think there is something fishy here) i don't think this is the way of the Egyptians to tell the world "hay don't mess with us we have this hulk on our sides" i mean they are probably not bluffing but no doubt the media of their country is being HIGHLY IRRESPONSIBLE buying into something like that without any demonstration only on the basis of an ambiguous test is quite immature and to top that all they are actully not being skeptical about it but i have to say the reporter in the beginning of the video is pretty cute:!).

Nismar i already explained that there is no religious angle here and being the only Muslim here i think its OK if you can take my word for it

I really don't want to talk about religion right now but it seems you have a HUGE misconception about the concept of GOD in ISLAM we believe that the GOD of the Jews,Christians,and the Muslims is the same there is no separate GOD for any religion that is why Muslims prefers the word ALLAH as it is universal and applies to all humans without discrimination of any religion.




I would still say that i made no assumptions but you are right we are just wasting time on this so let's just forget about that.

Oh I understand, I'm just saying that however he came to be the way he CLAIMS, there is no logic to it in any framework, secular, religious, or in between.

His claims make no sense, and his demonstration with the coin is either impressive, or Yuri Geller's style... and we all know how reliable Yuri is eh? Bending spoons... arrgh.

I understand your point however, but I'd add... you're right that the media there is being immature; they want this man to be amazing. It's that wanting that we all have, that needs to be guarded, and when we find truly amazing things to be true, it makes guarding our credulity all the better for the wait.

 

[FizixFreak]

Oh I understand, I'm just saying that however he came to be the way he CLAIMS, there is no logic to it in any framework, secular, religious, or in between.

His claims make no sense, and his demonstration with the coin is either impressive, or Yuri Geller's style... and we all know how reliable Yuri is eh? Bending spoons... arrgh.

I understand your point however, but I'd add... you're right that the media there is being immature; they want this man to be amazing. It's that wanting that we all have, that needs to be guarded, and when we find truly amazing things to be true, it makes guarding our credulity all the better for the wait.

So i guess those claims of his are officially busted

Any way i was just wondering that in the worlds strongest men competitions the participants do amazing things i wonder how much HP does these tasks requite for example pulling a truck which is a part of strong men competitions.

 

[nismaratwork]

So i guess those claims of his are officially busted

Any way i was just wondering that in the worlds strongest men competitions the participants do amazing things i wonder how much HP does these tasks requite for example pulling a truck which is a part of strong men competitions.

DanP is the guy to ask about that, no doubt.

edit: and may Proton_Soup

 

[DanP]

Any way i was just wondering that in the worlds strongest men competitions the participants do amazing things i wonder how much HP does these tasks requite for example pulling a truck which is a part of strong men competitions.

I say you should start by understanding the concepts of work, power and energy.

 

[FizixFreak]

MY goodness!




26000 pounds for 120 feet in just 28 seconds

which=111429lbs-foot/second which =202Hp

BUT he does uses the rope for assistance so the calculation might not be accurate.

 

[DanP]

MY goodness!

26000 pounds for 120 feet in just 28 seconds

which=111429lbs-foot/second which =202Hp

BUT he does uses the rope for assistance so the calculation might not be accurate.

Again, please understand the concepts. Think about what force is actually necessary to pull the truck :P Do you really think that man developed 148000+ Watts ?

 

[FizixFreak]

Again, please understand the concepts. Think about what force is actually necessary to pull the truck :P

Can you please elaborate..., i would like to see your take on this video i mean if calculations are made in a proper way what amount of power would have been exerted?

 

[JaredJames]

Can you please elaborate

You are only required to overcome resistance to pull the truck.

This is nowhere near 26000 pounds of force.

Note, if the truck had no wheels (just imagine a 26000 pound block of concrete) he wouldn't stand a chance of moving it.

 

[DanP]

Can you please elaborate..., i would like to see your take on this video i mean if calculations are made in a proper way what amount of power would have been exerted?

If you assume that you want to pull the truck with a constant speed, you only to pull with a tension equal in module to the frictional force. This force is not the weight of the truck, it's WAY less.

It would be the weight only if you would do the work against gravity.

 

[FizixFreak]

You are only required to overcome resistance to pull the truck.

This is nowhere near 26000 pounds of force.

Note, if the truck had no wheels (just imagine a 26000 pound block of concrete) he wouldn't stand a chance of moving it.

Oh my goodness..., i can't believe i made such a huge mistake the man only needed to overcome the friction between the tires which were round(rolling friction is less than sliding friction) to really exert that much power he needed to move the truck against force of gravity now that was a big mistake even for a rookie i need to slap my self on the head for this i should really change my user name.

But to calculate the real work done and power we need to know the coeficent of friction not to mention both the static and kinetic coefficients between the tires and the ground can anybody give a rough estimation on that?

 

[nismaratwork]

Mistakes are part of learning... you're learning, so just keep going with it.

There's a reason people still do these stunts.. they're impressive, they make us think in terms of "WOW" rather than, "How?!"

 

[FizixFreak]

Thanx nismar i appreciate that but that WAS stupid i think i lost my edge when i stopped teaching those kids i though for an year would probably mourn their luck if they found out i made such a mistake but i guess mistakes ARE a part of life.

 

[h2oski1326]

But to calculate the real work done and power we need to know the coeficent of friction not to mention both the static and kinetic coefficients between the tires and the ground can anybody give a rough estimation on that?

In the video they claim that the tension on the cable between the strongman and the truck oscillated between 100lbf and 500lbf continuously, based on the data from the load cell. If you assume that is correct and the average tension was around 300lbf, this yields about:

$$\dot{W}=\frac{300lbf*120ft}{28sec}=2.33hp$$

That still seems pretty high considering I have read claims that Lance Armstrong can only maintain about 1/4hp on his bike. I suppose for such short duration it may make sense.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

In the video they claim that the tension on the cable between the strongman and the truck oscillated between 100lbf and 500lbf continuously, based on the data from the load cell. If you assume that is correct and the average tension was around 300lbf, this yields about:

$$\dot{W}=\frac{300lbf*120ft}{28sec}=2.33hp$$

That still seems pretty high considering I have read claims that Lance Armstrong can only maintain about 1/4hp on his bike. I suppose for such short duration it may make sense.

Lance Armstrong can definitely produce more than 1/4 hp for a short time. I have personally managed a full HP for a few seconds in a reclining configuration. The limit for a human on a bike is around 1000 watts, or ~1.3 HP, for a few seconds. Most adults can manage 300-400 watts for a short time - in the range of 1 to 3 minutes. I would agree that Armstrong can likely produce 1/4 HP continuously.

Calling 100 - 500, 300, is a pretty wild approximation. For example, it could easily be closer to 100 most of the time, with only short bursts of 500.

 

[h2oski1326]

Lance Armstrong can definitely produce more than 1/4 hp for a short time. I have personally managed a full HP for a few seconds in a reclining configuration. The limit for a human on a bike is around 1000 watts, or ~1.3 HP, for a few seconds. Most adults can manage 300-400 watts for a short time - a few minutes. I would agree that Armstrong can likely produce 1/4 HP continuously.

Makes sense.

Measuring human output seems difficult because of fatigue. Take this guy for example,



squatting 1050lbf. I did another rough estimation of power output assuming he only moved the weight about 2ft in 1 second, and ignoring the down-stroke. This yields:

$$\dot{W}=\frac{1050lbf*2ft}{1sec}=3.8hp$$

Even that guy cannot perform like that for more than a few seconds.

 

[h2oski1326]

Calling 100 - 500, 300, is a pretty wild approximation. For example, it could easily be closer to 100 most of the time, with only short bursts of 500.

The video described it as 'cyclical' which I interpreted to be close to sinusoidal, which I think could be close based on what I saw in the video. Never claimed it was not a very rough estimation.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

The video described it as 'cyclical' which I interpreted to be close to sinusoidal, which I think could be close based on what I saw in the video.

That assumption seems a bit of a stretch based on the information we have. You really need to integrate the load cell measurements to have any useful information beyond the upper and lower boundaries.

Still, given that he was using both his arms and legs, your approximation may not be out of the ballpark.

 

[h2oski1326]

That assumption seems a bit of a stretch based on the information we have. You really need to integrate the load cell measurements to have any useful information beyond the upper and lower boundaries.

Still, given that he was using both his arms and legs, your approximation may not be out of the ballpark.

A ballpark is all I was after, it may be way off, without data it is hard to know.

 

[nismaratwork]

Hmmm, let's just call it another nail in the coffin... it may not be exact, but it's orders of magnitude away from the claim. That's what matters most in this case... and thanks by the way.

 

[FizixFreak]

Makes sense.

Measuring human output seems difficult because of fatigue. Take this guy for example,



squatting 1050lbf. I did another rough estimation of power output assuming he only moved the weight about 2ft in 1 second, and ignoring the down-stroke. This yields:

$$\dot{W}=\frac{1050lbf*2ft}{1sec}=3.8hp$$

Even that guy cannot perform like that for more than a few seconds.

You bring up a good point and that is fatigue humans can only produce that about of power in short bursts of energy well i think that the movement(squat) might have been more than two feet and one more thing is that this guy brings the weight down quite slowly before moving it upwards my question is that preventing 1050lbs to accelerate at the rate of 9.8m/s^2 would also require a lot of work to be done (am i right?) is it enough to be included here? and of course if we do include it here the time duration and distance traveled will also be effected which will alter the answer by a considerable amount.

About the guy pulling the truck wouldn't it be more accurate to measure the power in terms of work done against the force of friction? just asking.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

About the guy pulling the truck wouldn't it be more accurate to measure the power in terms of work done against the force of friction? just asking.

How would you measure the force due to friction?

 

[FizixFreak]

How would you measure the force due to friction?

To move an object lying on a surface one must apply force on it against the force of friction so...,the force applied multiplied by distance moved equals work done which divided by time duration equals power right

As for the first question i think i neglected this

and ignoring the down-stroke

 

[Ivan Seeking]

To move an object lying on a surface one must apply force on it against the force of friction so...,the force applied multiplied by distance moved equals work done which divided by time duration equals power right

... and how would you measure that force in practice? If you wanted to measure the force due to the rolling friction of the truck, how would you do it?

 

[FizixFreak]

... and how would you measure that force in practice? If you wanted to measure the force due to the rolling friction of the truck, how would you do it?

force of friction(kinetic/static)=coefficient of kinetic/static friction multiplied by normal reaction force

Assuming the truck moved with uniform(that can be a wild assumption though) velocity
force applied = force of friction

force applied to move the truck with uniform velocity+force applied to start the motion=total force applied

I see its not as simple as i thought i see that my method is looking a little awkward and may be non sense:shy:

 

[Ivan Seeking]

force of friction(kinetic/static)=coefficient of kinetic/static friction multiplied by normal reaction force

Assuming the truck moved with uniform(that can be a wild assumption though) velocity
force applied = force of friction

force applied to move the truck with uniform velocity+force applied to start the motion=total force applied

I see its not as simple as i thought i see that my method is looking a little awkward and may be non sense:shy:

My point is, wouldn't you do it with a load cell either in compression or tension? They ARE measuring the rolling friction. If one was to integrate the load cell values over time [and distance] and average, you should get the work done to overcome rolling friction + the work done to accelerate the truck to the average rolling speed.

 

[FizixFreak]

My point is, wouldn't you do it with a load cell either in compression or tension? They ARE measuring the rolling friction. If one was to integrate the load cell values over time [and distance] and average, you should get the work done to overcome rolling friction + the work done to accelerate the truck to the average rolling speed.

Thanks now i see the convenience of high tech gadgets why go through such a messy process when you can do it with cool stuff like with the help of a load cell thanks again buddy and i think i should stick to general discussion only!

About the down stroke(for the guy squatting) do you think that is considerable?